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Author: Subject: The new civil war?

Universal Peach





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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 10:38 AM
Anyone feel like our nation is on the slippery slope to civil war? This question has been surfacing lately. Symptoms visible here on WP. Interesting article in the New Yorker re "America's New Kind of Civil War".
What got me thinking about it is how people are totally demonizing the opposition. This shows a weakness of character - It is lazy stupid and toxic. If you are indulging in this vice you are part of the push toward civil war.

excerpt from New Yorker article:

Is America Headed for a New Kind of Civil War?
By Robin WrightAugust 14, 2017

“We keep saying, ‘It can’t happen here,’ but then, holy smokes, it can,” Mines told me after we talked, on Sunday, about Charlottesville. The pattern of civil strife has evolved worldwide over the past sixty years. Today, few civil wars involve pitched battles from trenches along neat geographic front lines. Many are low-intensity conflicts with episodic violence in constantly moving locales. Mines’s definition of a civil war is large-scale violence that includes a rejection of traditional political authority and requires the National Guard to deal with it. On Saturday, McAuliffe put the National Guard on alert and declared a state of emergency.

Based on his experience in civil wars on three continents, Mines cited five conditions that support his prediction: entrenched national polarization, with no obvious meeting place for resolution; increasingly divisive press coverage and information flows; weakened institutions, notably Congress and the judiciary; a sellout or abandonment of responsibility by political leadership; and the legitimization of violence as the “in” way to either conduct discourse or solve disputes.

President Trump “modeled violence as a way to advance politically and validated bullying during and after the campaign,” Mines wrote in Foreign Policy. “Judging from recent events the left is now fully on board with this,” he continued, citing anarchists in anti-globalization riots as one of several flashpoints. “It is like 1859, everyone is mad about something and everyone has a gun.”

rest of article: https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/is-america-headed-for-a-new-kind-o f-civil-war

[Edited on 6/28/2018 by BrerRabbit]

 
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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 11:12 AM
We’ve been in a right v left civil war since 9/11, which is when I noticed the 2 sides beginning to become enemies. Prior to that, I saw it as typical political discourse. But after 9/11, I noticed a change, beginning with going into Iraq and the WMD’s. The left revolted against the invasion, which paved the way for Obama to promise his hope and change. When Obama was elected, the right revolted, and doubled down with Trump, which puts us where we are today. I don’t see violence breaking out. I see a restoration to class and dignity in the White House after Trump is gone, leading to a restoration of typical political discourse like we had prior to 9/11.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 12:34 PM
I see the divide here locally. A restaurant here that has always been a stop for republicans on the campaign trail has suddenly seen a movement of people refusing to go there and social media talk of expanding on this thought. Dems supporting dem leaning business and the same with republicans. I’ve never seen this around here even after 9/11. I personally think it’s a slippery slope but it’s happening and for what it’s worth, I notice the restaurant didn’t get involved in this weeks runoff that was going on at all. Like everything else, we’ll see where it goes.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 02:28 PM
quote:
We’ve been in a right v left civil war since 9/11, which is when I noticed the 2 sides beginning to become enemies.


Watergate.

 

A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 07:17 PM


Why does the author try to connect the "radical right" and President Trump to acts of violence like Fergueson and Baltimore. This is really unfair and biased to make this sort of connection.

Tensions are high, but the media should admit their role in inflaming and condoning a radical left movement.

 

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Universal Peach



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 09:54 PM
quote:
Why does the author try to connect the "radical right" and President Trump to acts of violence like Fergueson and Baltimore.


I just re-read it trying to find what you are pointing out, but couldn't. The analyst she draws from makes clear that the "radical left is fully on board" (with violence). There was no specific accusation, other than pointing out the condoning of violence and bullying during Trump's rise to power.

Takes two to tango.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 6/28/2018 at 09:56 PM
The president couldn’t bring himself to condemn the racist march and instead says they were “good people” and he knows it but we should blame the media? Why would any president say such?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 06:03 AM
I think about some things like this like when I'm cutting the grass or driving or whatever.

It seems our society is both so fragile and yet so resilient.

We know that something like half of the country votes and is politically active and I have generally felt this is a bad thing. But maybe not. Maybe because we care too much about what types and how many guns we can own, or what another person is or isn't paying in taxes, or if somebody should be able to have abortions, or if somebody in the government uses a private email server...just so much of this stuff, it just consumes and divides and sows resentment and animosity, but for what? Why?

Maybe being less involved and less politically active can actually save us?

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 09:36 AM
quote:
Why does the author try to connect the "radical right" and President Trump to acts of violence like Fergueson and Baltimore. This is really unfair and biased to make this sort of connection.

Tensions are high, but the media should admit their role in inflaming and condoning a radical left movement.


I see you admire my rational approach to the SCOTUS, but abandon the same principle for your own actions. Why does the author connect Trump to acts of violence? Maybe because he suggested violence multiple times throughout his campaign, yet you only focus on the media and the left. I appreciate you elevating me above this elementary drivel.



[Edited on 6/29/2018 by BoytonBrother]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 11:16 AM
quote:
quote:
Why does the author try to connect the "radical right" and President Trump to acts of violence like Fergueson and Baltimore. This is really unfair and biased to make this sort of connection.

Tensions are high, but the media should admit their role in inflaming and condoning a radical left movement.


I see you admire my rational approach to the SCOTUS, but abandon the same principle for your own actions. Why does the author connect Trump to acts of violence? Maybe because he suggested violence multiple times throughout his campaign, yet you only focus on the media and the left. I appreciate you elevating me above this elementary drivel.



[Edited on 6/29/2018 by BoytonBrother]



X2

Seriously - all one had to do was listen to Trump's campaign rally speeches. Guess those were ones goob missed. The same prez who considers the media as the "enemy of the people".

From Newsweek article :

President Donald Trump’s comments on dealing with protesters are coming back to haunt him after the violence that broke out Saturday at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. The clashes between Nazis and counterprotesters left three people dead, including one anti-fascist demonstrator who was killed when a man rammed his car into the group she was with.

The president, whose initial statement about the rally was criticized for failing to mention racism, now finds comments he made about attacking protesters being revisited. Throughout his election campaign, Trump appeared to encourage violence toward anti-Trump protesters who showed up at his rallies, telling crowds of people that protesters should be escorted out more roughly, and offering to pay the legal fees of any of his fans who attacked them.

"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise," Trump said at an Iowa rally on February 1, 2016.

At another event, Trump suggested police should be more violent with people they removed from his rallies. “You see, in the good old days, law enforcement acted a lot quicker than this,” Trump said at a rally in Oklahoma City, The New York Times reported, as security moved toward a protester.


Below from Newsweek article:

President Donald Trump’s comments on dealing with protesters are coming back to haunt him after the violence that broke out Saturday at a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Virginia. The clashes between Nazis and counterprotesters left three people dead, including one anti-fascist demonstrator who was killed when a man rammed his car into the group she was with.

The president, whose initial statement about the rally was criticized for failing to mention racism, now finds comments he made about attacking protesters being revisited. Throughout his election campaign, Trump appeared to encourage violence toward anti-Trump protesters who showed up at his rallies, telling crowds of people that protesters should be escorted out more roughly, and offering to pay the legal fees of any of his fans who attacked them.

"If you see somebody getting ready to throw a tomato, knock the crap out of them, would you? Seriously, OK? Just knock the hell... I promise you I will pay for the legal fees. I promise, I promise," Trump said at an Iowa rally on February 1, 2016.

At another event, Trump suggested police should be more violent with people they removed from his rallies. “You see, in the good old days, law enforcement acted a lot quicker than this,” Trump said at a rally in Oklahoma City, The New York Times reported, as security moved toward a protester.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 12:34 PM
Political power and the current state of affairs that surround the party in power is very similar to a pendulum. Over the last 8 years prior to Trump's election, that balance of ideals and political correctness had shifted way to the left, waaaay to the left. The 2016 election was this nation' s way of finding balance, that's just the way the system was intended to work. Some will be pissed while others are pleased; proof that we will ultimately find a middle ground. "Civil War"? A we bit extreme I think.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 01:17 PM
I agree BIGV. I’ve seen the swing from Bush to Clinton to Bush 2 etc. and I think civil war may be a little much. I do admit tho that as I stated above, I don’t think I’ve seen it this bad. Refusing to eat somewhere because of an owners politics is something I haven’t-experienced I know friends that have grown apart lately. The sad part is that it takes a national tragedy for folks to come together and that never will last. We remember the arm n arm love after 9/11.

I do notice that the debates here are civil and respectful unlike some others I see. If the Brothers were on tour we wouldn’t even notice DC.

[Edited on 6/29/2018 by sckeys]

 

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A Peach Supreme



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 01:29 PM
1968. RFK andMLK. How many died in urban riots that year? How many died in Vietnam ? To compare our time to that is silly.

 

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Extreme Peach



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 02:56 PM
quote:


Why does the author try to connect the "radical right" and President Trump to acts of violence like Fergueson and Baltimore. This is really unfair and biased to make this sort of connection.

Tensions are high, but the media should admit their role in inflaming and condoning a radical left movement.


Would it also be unfair to connect Trump and the radical right to the tragic violence that occurred in Charlottesville???..............if so, I am wrong then, because I have them tightly connected.........Peace........joe

[Edited on 6/29/2018 by crazyjoe]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 6/29/2018 at 03:08 PM
A hot civil war? No.

A cold civil war? Oh, yes. Raging.

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/4/2018 at 06:56 PM
for a good laugh check out #secondcivilwarletters on twitter

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/4/2018 at 10:33 PM
quote:
for a good laugh check out #secondcivilwarletters on twitter



Funny as hell.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2018 at 11:48 AM
People continue to pull back into their bubbles and stay there with like-minded people. There's a hashtag going around conservative social media called the #WalkAway movement, essentially, don't engage Democrats and liberals. Just walk away.

This kind of stuff is a good thing, IMO.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2018 at 12:45 PM
quote:
People continue to pull back into their bubbles and stay there with like-minded people. There's a hashtag going around conservative social media called the #WalkAway movement, essentially, don't engage Democrats and liberals. Just walk away.

This kind of stuff is a good thing, IMO.


I will exchange ideas and thought with anyone at anytime, until it becomes argumentative. One should be able to share a thought and hear an opposing view. If you disagree, you should be able to depart, knowing you've made the attempt. Seeing and hearing frustration because you will not continue to engage when there is no possibility in your mind of finding common ground is the red flag that tells me the attempt at conversation has come to an end. It's OK to just, walk away.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/5/2018 at 01:26 PM
quote:
quote:
People continue to pull back into their bubbles and stay there with like-minded people. There's a hashtag going around conservative social media called the #WalkAway movement, essentially, don't engage Democrats and liberals. Just walk away.

This kind of stuff is a good thing, IMO.


I will exchange ideas and thought with anyone at anytime, until it becomes argumentative. One should be able to share a thought and hear an opposing view. If you disagree, you should be able to depart, knowing you've made the attempt. Seeing and hearing frustration because you will not continue to engage when there is no possibility in your mind of finding common ground is the red flag that tells me the attempt at conversation has come to an end. It's OK to just, walk away.


In the political realm, there is this strong notion that both sides need to engage each other. I don't think that's the case. Now, the actual elected officials, they most certainly need to engage each other. The rest of us, not at all.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/6/2018 at 05:34 PM
quote:
1968. RFK andMLK. How many died in urban riots that year? How many died in Vietnam ? To compare our time to that is silly.


Amen, there may have been some paid agitators back then but today has that time beat hands down.

 

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