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Author: Subject: Is there such a thing as

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/18/2017 at 03:11 PM
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Get those rich people to pay for more and more things that people can't afford for themselves. How about we get people the opportunities to be able to afford things they need and want. A good paying job.


Haven't conservatives been looking to the rich people to create those jobs for like...decades?



Decades, for sure.

And these rich folks probably haven't created 10 jobs during this period. When is everyone going to wake up and realize it's the guys making $17,000 or $22,000 that create all the jobs?!

 

World Class Peach



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  posted on 7/18/2017 at 03:59 PM
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[Edited on 7/18/2017 by BrerRabbit]


I can't help that Obama started it.

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/18/2017 at 09:25 PM
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Say you have a husband and wife who are principals at different schools and say one of them also is a high school basketball coach pushing their total combined income over $250k. They are rich to you?


Yes.

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But please, let's stop with the 250k targeting. And I know you didn't say that, but that is always where people draw the line "yeah all those rich people making 250k". Well that kind of money might make someone quite well off in some parts of the country. And in other parts of the country it is barely middle class. Cost of living and job availability has alot to do with it. Let's get a little perspective and a little less demonizing of different classes of people.


It's rich in 99% of the country. Personal accountability has everything to do with it. What can't someone afford on $250k? Unnecessary luxury items? If someone is struggling or limited on $250k a year, then they are over-extending themselves. If someone believes it's rich, why should they be criticized for it? And why do you see it as being demonized? I know plenty of people who would be happy as a pig in sh*t to pay those extra taxes in exchange for that household income.


quote:
Get those rich people to pay for more and more things that people can't afford for themselves.


You know it's more complicated than this. You know the extra tax money is distributed among countless entities that benefit entire cities, towns, communities, etc. But here you go again focused on "things people can't afford" - more material things that don't matter in life.



[Edited on 7/19/2017 by BoytonBrother]

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 07:02 AM
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So those high income earners may create jobs with more money at their disposal, or they may spend it, or they may invest it. It is their's they can do whatever they want with it...so long as they aren't creating foreign jobs or spending it on foreign goods and services or investing it in foreign countries. I mean they can do that, but that isn't in America's interest so I would look towards my government to control such activity to "our" benefit. I assume you'll be done confusing me with any kind of conservative I'd think.




I found the President's dog & pony show the other day about "Made In America" a bit hypocritical, as most of his products are produced in foreign countries - creating jobs for other countries. I'm not sure first daughter, Ivanka has any of her product line produced here. First family leading by example for "Made In America"?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/ivanka-trump-products-not-made-america/

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 08:05 AM
Mr Brother:
Cost of living and where you live means everything when determining what income levels equal what classification people fall into:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/menachem-rosensaft/not-everyone-who-makes-25_ b_2157742.html

Martin, 100% correct. Many people, you and others included have been very critical on the President's and family's products being made abroad while he touts the importance and desire to have things made here. I have said and agree how hypocritical it is. One absolutely has to walk the walk on this and their explanations otherwise are a bunch of **** .

 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 11:58 AM
This article states that a couple in Missoula earning $250k cannot have the same "lifestyle" as a couple in NYC or LA. You were not saying this at all. You insulted those who feel $250k/year is rich, said they don't have perspective, and that these people are demonized. The article isn't about that.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 12:33 PM
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It's rich in 99% of the country. Personal accountability has everything to do with it. What can't someone afford on $250k? Unnecessary luxury items? If someone is struggling or limited on $250k a year, then they are over-extending themselves.


And what if said people have the audacity to be personally accountable to all who matter to them? What business is it of yours what they can afford? Who are you to judge what is an "Unnecessary Luxury" item?... How about a Yacht?...Does that qualify?...You might argue that the 99% have never even been on a boat they might refer to as a "Yacht"....Looking at the big picture here, for me it's not about the perception of wealth, but those who criticize it and then hide behind the veil of hypocrisy.

" If someone is struggling or limited on $250k a year, then they are over-extending themselves.

Hahahaha! Or having the time of their lives. Possibly because they have worked their you know what's off while chasing a dream. What a great Country.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 02:00 PM
quote:
This article states that a couple in Missoula earning $250k cannot have the same "lifestyle" as a couple in NYC or LA. You were not saying this at all. You insulted those who feel $250k/year is rich, said they don't have perspective, and that these people are demonized. The article isn't about that.


What I said exactly was that $250k might make you well off in some part of the country while not in another part.

If you want to argue about something I'll do that with you until I lose interest, that's fine we can do that. But the article states my point precisely. I can hand feed you more story links if you like?

If you or anyone felt insulted, get the **** over it already. Ha, insulted, oh my the horror in my words.

Have a cheery day!

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 02:14 PM


[Edited on 7/19/2017 by LeglizHemp]

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 02:58 PM
You didn't answer my questions, but oh well. I agree with the article and your point. But I didn't say I felt insulted by you - I said that you insulted someone who feels $250k is rich. Just pointing it out so maybe you can work on that. Also, do you see the irony in your statement - that if someone's perspective (or opinion) is different than yours, then their perspective is wrong? How can that be? And why do you feel demonized? I didn't understand that part.
 

Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 03:24 PM
quote:
And what if said people have the audacity to be personally accountable to all who matter to them?


That's the ideal scenario.

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What business is it of yours what they can afford?


It's not. I asked Nebish that question to see what he considers "barely middle class". Still waiting on that answer from him.

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Who are you to judge what is an "Unnecessary Luxury" item?


Why would I not have an opinion on this? I think it would be irresponsible to not have this defined for myself and my family.

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How about a Yacht?...Does that qualify?


Yes, IMO.

quote:
...You might argue that the 99% have never even been on a boat they might refer to as a "Yacht"....Looking at the big picture here, for me it's not about the perception of wealth, but those who criticize it and then hide behind the veil of hypocrisy.


Who is criticizing it? And I know hypocrisy sucks but I'd move away from that - every day we are all hypocrites.

" If someone is struggling or limited on $250k a year, then they are over-extending themselves.

quote:
Hahahaha! Or having the time of their lives. Possibly because they have worked their you know what's off while chasing a dream. What a great Country.


Agreed. More power to them. I was replying to a specific comment by Nebish though.

[Edited on 7/19/2017 by BoytonBrother]

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 05:13 PM
Well first off, Iím glad you were not offended or insulted, I could do much better in the insult category than that! As for working on that on my end, itís an internet forum after all, but ok.

Secondly, it has never been my intent to ignore questions. Iím happy to clarify or substantiate any of my posts or opinions. Often times questions like yours may be viewed as kind of rhetorical and I glossed over them to address the overall issue at hand. So I will tackle your questions now if you like.

quote:
It's rich in 99% of the country. Personal accountability has everything to do with it. What can't someone afford on $250k? Unnecessary luxury items? If someone is struggling or limited on $250k a year, then they are over-extending themselves. If someone believes it's rich, why should they be criticized for it? And why do you see it as being demonized? I know plenty of people who would be happy as a pig in sh*t to pay those extra taxes in exchange for that household income.


Deserving of criticism or not, I think offering information that presents a different story helpful for people to see another side of the argument. Even if it isn't helpful or falls on deaf ears that is what I enjoy doing.

I see it as class warfare, pitting lower income earners against higher income earners, causing Americans to resent other Americans. Iím not a fan of this political strategy.

quote:
Also, do you see the irony in your statement - that if someone's perspective (or opinion) is different than yours, then their perspective is wrong? How can that be? And why do you feel demonized? I didn't understand that part.


I can see why you would say that and Iím sure I come off that way, maybe more often than not. However as I said what I enjoy about what I post is presenting a different point of view and I enjoy being a minority view at that. So rather than discuss the specific merits of an opinion that I find disagreeable, or wrong, Iíd rather rush to post a counterpoint. However, rest assured that points opposing to mine are not lost on me. In the real world, if you will, I turn the tables and often take a progressive side of an argument to engage people that I know are already coming from the right-side of an issue.

quote:
quote:


What business is it of yours what they can afford?





quote:
It's not. I asked Nebish that question to see what he considers "barely middle class". Still waiting on that answer from him.



What do I consider barely middle class? A better question would be where do I consider an annual income of $250k as barely middle class. Huntington, NY according to this hypothetical exercise:

quote:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/49807529

Bottom line: For folks like the Joneses who live in high-tax, high-cost areas, who save for retirement and college, pay for child care to enable two incomes, and pay higher prices for housing in top school districts, $250,000 does not a rich family make.




No doubt, where I live and I suspect where you live a couple pulling in a quarter of a million per year is huge. But, and back to my original point, for some perspective on the issue, it is not rich in every area of this country. So then if we are going to target this income level for tax increases I think it is helpful if not essential to take into consideration where the people are living before we lump them into the ďrichĒ classification.

Finally, I do not feel demonized. I am looking at it from the outside and seeing some people unfairly, in my opinion, being demonized in political rhetoric because they "make too much", when taking everything into consideration they may not be making too much depending on their location and circumstances. You canít live luxuriously everywhere in our country on that income, most places, a overwhelming majority of places, yeah, but there are real exceptions.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 06:28 PM
that's why i like nebish. well thought out statements. i respect that.

i've lost track of the conversation though. 250k is alot or a little, depends where you live and how you live. uhm........yea

 

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Ultimate Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 06:32 PM
I'm in NJ. $250k does not allow a luxurious lifestyle in my area, but it will easily allow a large upscale home, upscale cars, supporting 2 children, and still have disposable income left over. They may not have a beach house and a boat, but the lifestyle I described is rich to most Americans, I think - not wealthy or luxurious, but rich.




 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 07:47 PM
quote:
that's why i like nebish. well thought out statements. i respect that.

i've lost track of the conversation though. 250k is alot or a little, depends where you live and how you live. uhm........yea


Cheers!

quote:
I'm in NJ. $250k does not allow a luxurious lifestyle in my area, but it will easily allow a large upscale home, upscale cars, supporting 2 children, and still have disposable income left over. They may not have a beach house and a boat, but the lifestyle I described is rich to most Americans, I think - not wealthy or luxurious, but rich.


If we wanted to take this conversation the next step, it would be interesting to know what % of this sort of arbitrary $250,000 income ballpark live in high cost of living areas vs the rest of the country. Not sure how to find that out. I don't think it would be a majority or even half, but that doesn't minimize my desire to defend the overall income class.

One thing I should go back to, when I said wanting to see people be able to afford the things they want rather than having other people pay for such things, I wasn't talking about material items necessarily BB or Mr Brother whatever you prefer for short.

I meant things like health care, education and the basic needs of life. It wasn't really that long ago that the cost of health care and education were both affordable and attainable for more people than it is today through income and savings from job that provided good pay and services such as higher education and health care that hadn't yet experienced astronomical cost increases. Why do we think that more and more people are unable to afford these things? That is my question and what I want to try and tackle. Not just finding ways to get some high income individuals to subsidize it via higher taxes and federal government programs.

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 08:26 PM
i disagree with the statement that insurance was affordable and nice and companies provided it in the past.

once upon a time, 30 years ago, where i work, we provided insurance to employees. insurance pretty much increased at same rate it does today, on average, some years 20%, some years 4%

as an aside, this year we get an 8% increase.

 

____________________
Flies all green 'n buzzin' in his dungeon of despair
Who are all those people that he's locked away up there
Are they crazy?,
Are they sainted?
Are they zeros someone painted?,
It has never been explained since at first it was created

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 7/19/2017 at 10:21 PM
quote:
i disagree with the statement that insurance was affordable and nice and companies provided it in the past.

once upon a time, 30 years ago, where i work, we provided insurance to employees. insurance pretty much increased at same rate it does today, on average, some years 20%, some years 4%

as an aside, this year we get an 8% increase.


Not health insurance, but if you look at household out-of-pocket medical costs or all medical expenditures in general the annual growth is faster than income growth, more than inflation. Personal medical costs as a percentage of income rise. It's only getting worse.

 
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