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Author: Subject: Donald Trump: Worried About Mexican Immigrants Perpetrating Violence in the U.S.?

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 02:52 PM
quote:
quote:
Point: Holocaust Denial exists. I consider Holocaust Denial to be hate speech


Disagree. "Holocaust Denial" is absolute ignorance of undeniable fact. Pure and simple.

I deny "Global warming" and speak out against it. Is that hate, ignorance or just disagreeing with statistics presented as facts?


Not trying to derail the thread, but really? 150 years of industrial pollution is not going to have an environmental impact? Twenty plus years of breaking record high temperature records at over twice the rate of record lows is not global warming?

Are you in the "Chinese hoax" camp or the "climate scientists getting rich and famous" camp of science denial? Maybe you're with the "gays are the reason for hurricanes" crowd?

You know people didn't agree with Galileo when he said the earth goes around the sun, right? Should they have stuck to their guns?

For a Libertarian, there is a whole lot of Republican party nonsense being espoused.


 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 02:58 PM
quote:
quote:
But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it".
--Evelyn Beatrice Hall

I stand by this



You realize that you did not really make any kind of response to the actual post, right? Why did you not "defend to the death" the situation I referenced? Here it is again:

Remeber when BIGV, the free speech superhero, swooped in to defend Ilhan Omar from the anti-semitism accusations made against her by the "PC Police"? All she did was say something offensive to some people. Remember when he jumped all over one of his fellow right-wingers on this forum for being an easily offended snowflake and calling Omar a racist because she said maybe people should fear white males?

Me either...

But "make no mistake" it is super important to fight for people's right to be offensive (when it is convenient).

Seems like his argument totally absolves her...

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 03:03 PM
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just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 03:35 PM
quote:
That is always a choice. As long as there is no violence, let people say what they will....yawn


Sounds to me like you have never experienced hate speech directed at you. I have, for real. It hurts. A few times it was combined with severe violence - guess what remains, decades later? The words and intent. They made more impact than the broken bones - that pain is forgotten. I wouldn't wish that memory on anyone. Hilarious, huh?

This is not an evil crafty liberal stealth call for censorship, I am grateful for our Constitution, however the truth isy ou can mess someone up with verbal abuse as bad as physical.

Hate speech does exist: It is surreal that we find ourselves in a world in which I have to say that hate speech is real. I could understand a debate over what qualifies as hate speech, but to argue over the existence of hate speech - future shock, man.

To openly deny that hate speech exists, to proudly proclaim this on a public forum, is hate speech.


[Edited on 8/21/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 04:33 PM
quote:
Why did you not "defend to the death" the situation I referenced? .


Because I simply & absolutely disagree with her, but believe she has the right to say whatever she wants.

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 04:37 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.

Can statistics be shaped to fit any argument you choose?

 

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Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 04:44 PM
quote:
This is not an evil crafty liberal stealth call for censorship


That is exactly what it is.

quote:
I could understand a debate over what qualifies as hate speech, but to argue over the existence of hate speech - future shock, man.


Then for the 5th time, I will ask you to give us the Legal definition. Since you are so set on proclaiming its existence, tell us how you would present it from a Prosecutorial point in a Court of Law. How would such a case argument begin?....What Law would one have broken?

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 04:56 PM

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 05:15 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.

Can statistics be shaped to fit any argument you choose?

“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts. X number of people voted for candidate A. That is a fact. Average Temperatures have been rising for the past decade.. that is a fact. Using statistics to twist things for your own agenda is misrepresenting facts.

But the statistics themselves are facts.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 05:26 PM
quote:
“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts.


Sorry, but you are wrong, statistics are not facts, they are numbers and percentages alone do not constitute facts. You're a bright guy, you should know this.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:14 PM
Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:19 PM
quote:
Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.


Well, can you provide one for the term "Hate Speech"?...Seems pretty easy, either you can or you can not.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:31 PM
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.

You are basically arguing that the sky is green at this point. Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs, it’s a widely known statistic. Tell me what facts you can draw from that other than he hit the home runs. You are literally saying that the definitions of words are wrong.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:51 PM
quote:
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?

 

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Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:56 PM
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime. Pretty simple.

That is a fact. Like statistics.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 07:03 PM
quote:
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 07:18 PM
quote:
quote:
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?




“Miniskirt” is a physical thing that you can see. “Speech” is a physical thing that you can hear or read. “Sexy” and “hate” are adjectives describing the things. What one person thinks is sexy or hateful may not be the same as his neighbor. If a Jewish person thinks people in homemade nazi costumes chanting “Jews will not replace us” is hate speech, they are not wrong. You may have a difference of opinion, but that doesn’t really help the situation.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:08 PM
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quote:


Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


It can and has been defined. A search of "hate speech definition worldwide" took less than a blink of an eye and provided a very long list countries with very specific definitions and prohibitions. But, I guess if it doesn't exist here it doesn't exist. Like the vast melting of billions of tons of glacier ice that took millennia to develop and months to disappear - this reality doesn't exist for some people, therefore it isn't real.

 

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Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:33 PM
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Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.




Sounds a lot like “Alternative Facts”. Kellyanne would be proud of you, BIGV!

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:50 PM
quote:
quote:
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


I said there is no legal definition. There is no legal definition for "snow" but I am pretty sure it exists.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:53 PM
Our president is tweeting about race today just like a liberal.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:55 PM
Today, Trump name-called Omar simply because she has a differing opinion, just like those liberals.
 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 09:04 PM
quote:
Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


Plenty. Trump’s “fake news” strategy was brilliant and worked.

 

Peach Pro



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  posted on 8/21/2019 at 08:51 PM
Trump played the religion card today, must be a liberal.
 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2019 at 05:44 PM
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That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views without spewing bile


Give me a legal definition of bile. Bile does not exist.

I simply stated my opinion, raised objection to your idea that hate speech does not exist, that I think denial of hate speech is sick and toxic, and would be a welcome view on Stormfront and 4chan - you think that is bile, fine.

I am tolerant of your views and you are intolerant of mine. I countered your position in good conscience without malice and with no interest in changing your views. I did not repeatedly or even once challenge you to prove your theory that hate speech does not exist. I did not in any way recommend you alter your views. I did not cast aspersions on your character. I diid not go ad hominem to insult and mock you and call you hilarious for your statements.

Accusing me of a hidden censorship agenda was nothing more than a cheap strategy to sabotage my words beyond face value and push your program. That was completely false, and damn harsh after my post describing my experiences. I can assure you that I support free expression of ideas. My direct ancestors wrote the Constitution, Jim!

You are the one who cannot accept that others think differently. Disagreement is not intolerance.




[Edited on 8/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 
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