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Author: Subject: Donald Trump: Worried About Mexican Immigrants Perpetrating Violence in the U.S.?

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 04:56 PM

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 05:15 PM
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just disagreeing with statistics


Holy derangement!


Statistics, by definition, are facts.


Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.

Can statistics be shaped to fit any argument you choose?

“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts. X number of people voted for candidate A. That is a fact. Average Temperatures have been rising for the past decade.. that is a fact. Using statistics to twist things for your own agenda is misrepresenting facts.

But the statistics themselves are facts.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 05:26 PM
quote:
“Statistics are used to draw conclusions”. Maybe, but statistics themselves are facts.


Sorry, but you are wrong, statistics are not facts, they are numbers and percentages alone do not constitute facts. You're a bright guy, you should know this.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:14 PM
Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.
 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:19 PM
quote:
Let me guess, willful ignorance does not exist unless we can provide a legal definition.


Well, can you provide one for the term "Hate Speech"?...Seems pretty easy, either you can or you can not.

 

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"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:31 PM
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.

You are basically arguing that the sky is green at this point. Hank Aaron hit 755 home runs, it’s a widely known statistic. Tell me what facts you can draw from that other than he hit the home runs. You are literally saying that the definitions of words are wrong.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:51 PM
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Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 06:56 PM
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime. Pretty simple.

That is a fact. Like statistics.

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 07:03 PM
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There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 07:18 PM
quote:
quote:
Believe me, you are the only one who gives a turd about your legal definitions. There is no legal definition of a million things that in fact exist. “Sexy miniskirt” has no legal definition, but I have seen one.



"Sexy miniskirt" is a physical thing and therefore, can be seen and visually identified. "Hate Speech" as a terminology is an accusatory phrase. It is used by those who find certain remarks to be offensive....The assumption is that when you accuse someone of something you are expecting some sort of action. People who label what they feel to be "inflammatory" are doing so for a reason...What is to be gained?...The sheer joy of yelling out ..."That's hate speech"!?...or the intent of censorship?




“Miniskirt” is a physical thing that you can see. “Speech” is a physical thing that you can hear or read. “Sexy” and “hate” are adjectives describing the things. What one person thinks is sexy or hateful may not be the same as his neighbor. If a Jewish person thinks people in homemade nazi costumes chanting “Jews will not replace us” is hate speech, they are not wrong. You may have a difference of opinion, but that doesn’t really help the situation.

 

Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:08 PM
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Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


It can and has been defined. A search of "hate speech definition worldwide" took less than a blink of an eye and provided a very long list countries with very specific definitions and prohibitions. But, I guess if it doesn't exist here it doesn't exist. Like the vast melting of billions of tons of glacier ice that took millennia to develop and months to disappear - this reality doesn't exist for some people, therefore it isn't real.

 

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Peach Master



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:33 PM
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Dead wrong.

Statistics are used to draw conclusions derived from data. They are NOT facts.




Sounds a lot like “Alternative Facts”. Kellyanne would be proud of you, BIGV!

 

Peach Extraordinaire



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  posted on 8/20/2019 at 08:50 PM
quote:
quote:
There is no legal definition of hate speech because hate speech is not a crime.


Excellent.

Then what exactly is to be gained by accusing people of a manufactured term that can't be defined?


I said there is no legal definition. There is no legal definition for "snow" but I am pretty sure it exists.

 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/24/2019 at 05:44 PM
quote:
That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views without spewing bile


Give me a legal definition of bile. Bile does not exist.

I simply stated my opinion, raised objection to your idea that hate speech does not exist, that I think denial of hate speech is sick and toxic, and would be a welcome view on Stormfront and 4chan - you think that is bile, fine.

I am tolerant of your views and you are intolerant of mine. I countered your position in good conscience without malice and with no interest in changing your views. I did not repeatedly or even once challenge you to prove your theory that hate speech does not exist. I did not in any way recommend you alter your views. I did not cast aspersions on your character. I diid not go ad hominem to insult and mock you and call you hilarious for your statements.

Accusing me of a hidden censorship agenda was nothing more than a cheap strategy to sabotage my words beyond face value and push your program. That was completely false, and damn harsh after my post describing my experiences. I can assure you that I support free expression of ideas. My direct ancestors wrote the Constitution, Jim!

You are the one who cannot accept that others think differently. Disagreement is not intolerance.




[Edited on 8/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 06:42 PM
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That's the difference between you and me. I can tolerate opposing views without spewing bile


Give me a legal definition of bile. Bile does not exist.

I simply stated my opinion, raised objection to your idea that hate speech does not exist, that I think denial of hate speech is sick and toxic, and would be a welcome view on Stormfront and 4chan - you think that is bile, fine.

I am tolerant of your views and you are intolerant of mine. I countered your position in good conscience without malice and with no interest in changing your views. I did not repeatedly or even once challenge you to prove your theory that hate speech does not exist. I did not in any way recommend you alter your views. I did not cast aspersions on your character. I diid not go ad hominem to insult and mock you and call you hilarious for your statements.

Accusing me of a hidden censorship agenda was nothing more than a cheap strategy to sabotage my words beyond face value and push your program. That was completely false, and damn harsh after my post describing my experiences. I can assure you that I support free expression of ideas. My direct ancestors wrote the Constitution, Jim!

You are the one who cannot accept that others think differently. Disagreement is not intolerance.
[Edited on 8/25/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Bile: A dark green or yellowish brown liquid produced by the liver and stored in the gall bladder and is used in digestion in the small intestine

Note: You do not want to be in the room with someone vomiting bile. The smell alone, don't get me started on how it looks, is enough to cause explosive projectile vomit. My wife had a gut infection and was covering the emergency room floor with it. Several of the doctors and nurses added to the mess.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 07:31 PM
quote:
Bile: A dark green or yellowish brown liquid produced by the liver and stored in the gall bladder and is used in digestion in the small intestine

Note: You do not want to be in the room with someone vomiting bile. The smell alone, don't get me started on how it looks, is enough to cause explosive projectile vomit. My wife had a gut infection and was covering the emergency room floor with it. Several of the doctors and nurses added to the mess


Sounds awful! Glad she pulled thru, I hope she has the defenses to protect against a repeat.

Well, by that definition I guess I wasn't spewing bile.

I don't think there is a legal definition of bile though - how could bile be prosecuted in a court of law? I suppose you could attack someone with bile, say hurl in their beer at the tavern, or pull an exorcist peasouper on the person in front of you at the Barry Manilow reunion concert - but then it is the assault, not the bile that is the offense, if indeed you could prove that the bile attack was premeditated.



 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 07:55 PM
I've been trying to find a definition of "Hate Speech" for several days. Many websites talk about it, the Supreme court has said it is protected. Carlos Santana has been accused of it (look up Carlos Santana hate speech on new Georgia Law), but nobody gives a definition of it except in very broad, general terms where hate speech laws have been enacted.

Reading some of the results from those locations where what they determine (still without a definition or example) is hate speech, people are in jail for what is said on the web, especially in places like Hitting The Web.
Considering what some of those sentences are, and for what was written, there are a lot of posters here that should be glad we don't have hate speech laws in the US.

If we were in Canada, some of the posters who show their disdain for the President with "mean and hurtful words" could see themselves in jail. It could be a long time since there are no minimum punishments for hate speech crimes. More likely you would be faced with a significant fine.

Here in Georgia, there is a law on the books about "fighting words". If someone speaks words with the intent to cause you anger or humiliation, and you strike them, you are the aggrieved party and it is considered self defense-to a point.

So, go ahead and push for those hate speech laws. You might just find out it came back and bit you in the a$$.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 08:52 PM
How does recognition of the reality of hate speech translate into pushing for hate speech laws?

I will send a 20$ bill to the first person who quotes an HTW post calling for hate speech laws in the US.

NOT SO FAST THERE CRAFTY CARL!!! It has to be a post dated on or before Aug 24, 2019 - BEFORE TODAY AUG 25, 2019.

So no posting "I support hate speech laws" today or later just to collect twenty frogskins from old Brer Rabbit. Ha! Thought you had me there, didntcha? Damn, can't be too careful around this bunch.



[Edited on 8/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

Universal Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 09:25 PM
quote:
How does recognition of the reality of hate speech translate into pushing for hate speech laws?

I will send a 20$ bill to the first person who quotes an HTW post calling for hate speech laws in the US.

NOT SO FAST THERE CRAFTY CARL!!! It has to be a post dated on or before Aug 24, 2019 - BEFORE TODAY AUG 25, 2019.

So no posting "I support hate speech laws" today or later just to collect twenty frogskins from old Brer Rabbit. Ha! Thought you had me there, didntcha? Damn, can't be too careful around this bunch.



[Edited on 8/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]


Sorry, I haven't seen anyone here on this site espousing them.
I have seen many "progressive" thinkers urging the adoption of them. (Just look it up on the web.) Some of those folks believe that if you don't have the same views as them that any words going against their way of thinking is hate speech.
Most, when shown it can go both ways, decide not to support passing those laws.

 

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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/25/2019 at 09:34 PM
quote:
Sorry, I haven't seen anyone here on this site espousing them.


Same here, and for sure I will agree - there are power and control freaks in all political parties.

Was considering a wager of 100$, but that would buy some solid search time, you never know what someone might dig up. 20$ keeps it more off the top of your head knowledge.

People get accused of advocating censorship and hate speech laws on here all the time. Right here in this thread I was accused of agitating for censorship, because I dared to suggest that there was such a thing as hate speech. Then it is suggested that I am alluding to violence when I say that in good conscience I can't idly let denial of hate speech pass without reacting, meaning simply countering denial of hate speech with opposing comments. Why even go there? How paranoid and rabid is that?





[Edited on 8/26/2019 by BrerRabbit]

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2019 at 10:35 AM
quote:
Right here in this thread I was accused of agitating for censorship, because I dared to suggest that there was such a thing as hate speech.


I asked for a Legal definition only to be told...yada, yada yada.....

How about any definition of "Hate speech"?

 

____________________
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Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2019 at 10:39 AM
quote:
I’d argue that what we see and hear online or on social media, isn’t reality.


Finally an interesting topic! Great to see an earnest attempt to break out of the roomful of mrrors. Your statement leads to some fishbowl logic - as it is something we have seen online in social media . . . so is it reality?





 

Maximum Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2019 at 11:09 AM
quote:
How about any definition of "Hate speech"?


Ok ok, how about we let go of the words "Hate Speech" for a sec - it looks to me as if you are hung up on the term itself, which is abused in political discourse. I can budge on that no problem.

Would you concede that there is such a thing as "hateful speech" ? Meaning "Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground . . ."

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2019 at 12:08 PM
quote:
quote:
How about any definition of "Hate speech"?


Ok ok, how about we let go of the words "Hate Speech" for a sec - it looks to me as if you are hung up on the term itself, which is abused in political discourse. I can budge on that no problem.

Would you concede that there is such a thing as "hateful speech" ? Meaning "Speech that demeans on the basis of race, ethnicity, gender, religion, age, disability, or any other similar ground . . ."


Only by virtue of a label or definition that seems very, very important to some to be able to sling as a means to describe phrases they care not to hear, or more importantly, "Believe to be wrong"...

How about just using the words "I disagree"?

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 

Zen Peach



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  posted on 8/26/2019 at 01:52 PM
quote:
quote:
Only by virtue of a label or definition that seems very, very important to some to be able to sling as a means to describe phrases they care not to hear, or more importantly, "Believe to be wrong"...

How about just using the words "I disagree"?


I’ll pay you whatever you want to take this advice for yourself.


I'll pay you the same to find ONE post where I've called anyone here a name or a slur when I've disagreed....

Take your time

 

____________________
"Unless we do something about this, my children are going to grow up in a jungle, the jungle being a racial jungle with tensions having built so high that it is going to explode at some point. We have got to make some move on this". - Joe Biden, 1977

 
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