Thread: Gov. Ralph Northam admits he was in 1984 yearbook photo showing figures in blackface, KKK hood

BIGV - 2/2/2019 at 03:46 PM

Where is the outrage?

[Edited on 2/2/2019 by BIGV]


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 04:20 PM

Everywhere. All of Virginia, including his Democratic colleagues have asked him to resign.


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 04:22 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/virginia-politics/northam-mum-about-hi s-plans-after-a-flood-of-calls-for-his-resignation-for-racist-and-offensive -photo/2019/02/02/5883402a-26e9-11e9-90cd-dedb0c92dc17_story.html?utm_term= .72d7b7c5477c

quote:
Around 10:30 a.m., the state Democratic party tweeted, “We made the decision to let Governor Northam do the correct thing and resign this morning


sckeys - 2/2/2019 at 04:30 PM

What a dumbaxx. Bye bye gov.


BrerRabbit - 2/2/2019 at 05:47 PM

The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks. Hive mind.

[Edited on 2/2/2019 by BrerRabbit]


gina - 2/2/2019 at 05:50 PM

He is a politician, he just says that photo does not reflect the person that he is today. Politicians are so good at politico-speak.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/428187-northam-backtracks-says-he- does-not-believe-he-was-in-blackface-kkk


BIGV - 2/2/2019 at 05:55 PM

quote:
The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks.


Here is my issue, "Political Correctness" rearing its ugly head once again. He was a kid and this happened 35 years ago. Kavanaugh was 40 years ago. Kevin hart was 9 years ago Has the Governor done good things while in office? Is this offense worse than being an accused sexual harasser? Worse than using a Homophobic slur? As bad as wearing a MAGA hat and smirking at a Native American?

Where does the madness stop?


MartinD28 - 2/2/2019 at 05:56 PM

quote:
He is a politician, he just says that photo does not reflect the person that he is today. Politicians are so good at politico-speak.


https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/428187-northam-backtracks-says-he- does-not-believe-he-was-in-blackface-kkk


The guy that says he can grab women by the pu$$y in addition to affairs with a stripper and a Playboy Bunny and who lives with racist undertones is still in office today.


crazyjoe - 2/2/2019 at 06:04 PM

Yeah, he gone it would look like? Always told my kids, some screw ups and bad decisions, You can bounce back from and get a 2nd chance, but some You can't ? Not that anyone including myself always listens. He may not be that guy we see there, however, at that point in time he chose to do what he did, BIGV, what do You want outrage for, how about positive discussion and action, this subject shouldn't have sides, but sadly it does. I noticed when Franken was revealed he wasn't around long, I expect the same here, at the same time I noticed our beloved and respected President was busy trying to fiercely push into office a mall stalking pedophile?............Peace........joe


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 06:12 PM

quote:
quote:
The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks.


Here is my issue, "Political Correctness" rearing its ugly head once again. He was a kid and this happened 35 years ago. Kavanaugh was 40 years ago. Kevin hart was 9 years ago Has the Governor done good things while in office? Is this offense worse than being an accused sexual harasser? Worse than using a Homophobic slur? As bad as wearing a MAGA hat and smirking at a Native American?

Where does the madness stop?


Wait, now I'm confused, should we be outraged or not?

Maybe the problem is considering dressing as a Klansman merely "politically incorrect". We are responsible for our own actions and elected officials are held to a higher standard than comedians.

Meanwhile, if you don't care about the opinions of celebrities such as Kevin Hart, don't use them as an equivalency for politicians. You can't have it both ways.


BIGV - 2/2/2019 at 06:22 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks.


Here is my issue, "Political Correctness" rearing its ugly head once again. He was a kid and this happened 35 years ago. Kavanaugh was 40 years ago. Kevin hart was 9 years ago Has the Governor done good things while in office? Is this offense worse than being an accused sexual harasser? Worse than using a Homophobic slur? As bad as wearing a MAGA hat and smirking at a Native American?

Where does the madness stop?


Wait, now I'm confused, should we be outraged or not?

Maybe the problem is considering dressing as a Klansman merely "politically incorrect". We are responsible for our own actions and elected officials are held to a higher standard than comedians.

Meanwhile, if you don't care about the opinions of celebrities such as Kevin Hart, don't use them as an equivalency for politicians. You can't have it both ways.


I don't believe Kevin Hart's opinion has anything to do with this. He stepped away from a prestigious gig because of some he said/did a long time ago. My "where is the outrage" question was asked before I was aware he had resigned, directed at members of this board.

Had he not resigned would members here have called for it?


BrerRabbit - 2/2/2019 at 06:28 PM

The original post seemed to be asking where is the outrage from Democrats when one of their ranks gets targeted for past indiscretion.

However the OP then clarifies as where is the outrage over political correctness.

Thread point too obscure, or I am too dense. Or both.


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 06:34 PM

quote:
I don't believe Kevin Hart's opinion has anything to do with this. He stepped away from a prestigious gig because of some he said/did a long time ago. My "where is the outrage" question was asked before I was aware he had resigned, directed at members of this board.

Had he not resigned would members here have called for it?

I'm really not sure why you're asking about Kevin Hart. The Oscars and comedy are a little different than being Governor.

Meanwhile, Governor Northam now says he believes it is not him in the photo, even though he already admitted it was. Which is a really abrupt about-face.


BrerRabbit - 2/2/2019 at 06:37 PM

Ok, I think I get it. Yes the libs and free cons here are not afraid to kick any politicians @ss, regardless of party. We are free thinkers. I have ripped on Gore and Obama for their corporate cronyism bullsh!t many times.

The only locksteppers here are the trumpettes.


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 06:37 PM

quote:
The original post seemed to be asking where is the outrage from Democrats when one of their ranks gets targeted for past indiscretion.

However the OP then clarifies as where is the outrage over political correctness.

Thread point too obscure, or I am too dense. Or both.


I'm not following the train of thought either. Apparently previously dressing as a KKK member has better job security in the public sector than protesting does in the private sector.


BrerRabbit - 2/2/2019 at 06:41 PM

Same thing would happen if they dug up a photo of him ripped on acid covered in mud in a sex pile at Woodstock. Oh well. Just gotta hope it was worth it.


BIGV - 2/2/2019 at 07:07 PM

quote:
Meanwhile, Governor Northam now says he believes it is not him in the photo, even though he already admitted it was



Which character in the photo was purported to be him?


BrerRabbit - 2/2/2019 at 07:20 PM

Different things shock different people. A KKK outfit is scary as hell to a lot of people, while to others it is ho-hum. If they found a 40 year old photo of him in tight bondage leathers sashaying with a rainbow flag leading a gay pride parade with his flabby pale pimply @ss hanging out, a whole other set of folks would cry foul. And the people defending him and saying it was an expired nonissue would be called PC, no?

So PC must mean anything not white, conservative, heterosexual, and christian, is my takeaway.

Whaddyagonna do.





[Edited on 2/2/2019 by BrerRabbit]


porkchopbob - 2/2/2019 at 07:21 PM

quote:
Which character in the photo was purported to be him?


Am I now your news source?


cyclone88 - 2/2/2019 at 09:48 PM

quote:


Which character in the photo was purported to be him?


None. First, he didn't recall. Now, he says he wasn't in the photo. Having spoken to some classmates, the yearbook that year was screwed up.

He DOES recall dressing as Michael Jackson with hat & glove for a dance contest in San Antonio for which he used a little black shoe polish on his cheeks because "well, that stuff is hard to come off. Have you ever tried it?"






2112 - 2/2/2019 at 09:52 PM

quote:
The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks. Hive mind.



You don't get it. If the Democrats didn't call him out, the right would scream hypocrisy. If the Democrats do call him out, the right screams PC run amok.

I just look at it as two different sets of values. Democrats expect a certain set of values these days (and quite honestly they didn't in the past). The Republicans, which in the past were big on family values, aren't anymore. As with many things, tables have turned. There was a time the evangelicals would have demonized someone like Donald Trump based on his lack or morals, but the party of family values is gone and replaced by the anti-PC party who's top priority is your protect their own at any cost. But here we are, and the Republican party is as powerful as ever, so I guess if keeping power is what counts, it has worked well for them.


MartinD28 - 2/2/2019 at 10:26 PM

quote:
quote:
The pattern is Dems are a lot more willing to call out their own - Repubs either bunker up and defend, attack another front, ignore, or crawl under rocks. Hive mind.



You don't get it. If the Democrats didn't call him out, the right would scream hypocrisy. If the Democrats do call him out, the right screams PC run amok.

I just look at it as two different sets of values. Democrats expect a certain set of values these days (and quite honestly they didn't in the past). The Republicans, which in the past were big on family values, aren't anymore. As with many things, tables have turned. There was a time the evangelicals would have demonized someone like Donald Trump based on his lack or morals, but the party of family values is gone and replaced by the anti-PC party who's top priority is your protect their own at any cost. But here we are, and the Republican party is as powerful as ever, so I guess if keeping power is what counts, it has worked well for them.


Below is a Q & A with Jerry Falwell Jr that more than backs up your post.

https://www.richmond.com/news/national-world/liberty-university-s-jerry-fal well-jr-on-trump-i-can/article_c11fced8-579a-5e15-a084-965661a1d657.html


BIGV - 2/3/2019 at 02:24 AM

quote:
Below is a Q & A with Jerry Falwell Jr that more than backs up your post.

https://www.richmond.com/news/national-world/liberty-university-s-jerry-fal well-jr-on-trump-i-can/article_c11fced8-579a-5e15-a084-965661a1d657.html


Let me just say this for the record, "I think the far right Christian belief system is nuts. Nothing could be more out of my reach.

quote:
If the Democrats didn't call him out, the right would scream hypocrisy. If the Democrats do call him out, the right screams PC run amok.


Probably so, but in reality, just the other side of the same coin. The left screams "Racism, Bigotry & Homophobia" towards any view that does not fit their agenda.


BoytonBrother - 2/3/2019 at 04:45 AM

I think this thread proves once and for all what a complete jackass BIGV truly is. Has there ever been a more juvenile misguided biased idiotic thread? What on Earth is his message?


BrerRabbit - 2/3/2019 at 05:55 AM

Nah. He's got a point about the kneejerk stuff. Yet somehow this thread sort of cancelled itself out and I don't know whether I should be outraged. I also never heard of this or Kevin Hart so I'm probably just a total subversive because I am completely out of the media loop, not feeding any of it . . . and I honestly don't give a flying f*ck.

Nice rainbow by Capitol Butte there btw

[Edited on 2/3/2019 by BrerRabbit]


BIGV - 2/3/2019 at 06:02 AM

quote:
I think this thread proves once and for all what a complete jackass BIGV truly is. Has there ever been a more juvenile misguided biased idiotic thread? What on Earth is his message?


BoytonBrother - 2/3/2019 at 06:54 AM

quote:
Nah. He's got a point about the kneejerk stuff.


What point? Please explain. It started with “where’s the outrage?” Then he goes on to say that there shouldn’t be outrage. Then he brings up Kevin Hart in comparison, followed by “I don't believe Kevin Hart's opinion has anything to do with this.” Then it turned into whether anyone specifically on this board is outraged. And ended with:

quote:
The left screams "Racism, Bigotry & Homophobia" towards any view that does not fit their agenda.


And you can honestly say that he had a point? You really think the liberals BIGV reads about online represents all Liberals? Sell me on why this thread was intelligent. Or is it possible this is simply the drivel of a low IQ prejudice idiot?


BIGV - 2/3/2019 at 01:15 PM

quote:
You really think the liberals BIGV reads about online represents all Liberals? Sell me on why this thread was intelligent. Or is it possible this is simply the drivel of a low IQ prejudice idiot?


porkchopbob - 2/3/2019 at 01:39 PM

quote:
I think this thread proves once and for all what a complete jackass BIGV truly is.


Whoa, a little harsh, dude. Remember, this is a music website where we fellow music fans can respectfully disagree. No one is running for office here.


alanwoods - 2/3/2019 at 02:42 PM

quote:
I think this thread proves once and for all what a complete jackass BIGV truly is. Has there ever been a more juvenile misguided biased idiotic thread? What on Earth is his message?


Pot, meet kettle.


Bhawk - 2/3/2019 at 03:32 PM

Northam should resign, no other acceptable outcome.


BoytonBrother - 2/3/2019 at 07:08 PM

quote:
Whoa, a little harsh, dude. Remember, this is a music website where we fellow music fans can respectfully disagree. No one is running for office here.


From my perspective, his constant finger-pointing and prejudice against a political affiliation and minorities is far far worse, and if he is free to spew it, then I will certainly feel free to treat it accordingly.


BoytonBrother - 2/3/2019 at 07:18 PM

quote:
Pot, meet kettle.


This would only be true if I posted something and bailed on those responding to me and asking me direct questions. Go back and look at all the threads....one of us ignores questions, and one of us responds to everyone. Pot meet kettle my a$$. I’m the one here answering any question from anyone.....directly.


BrerRabbit - 2/3/2019 at 08:00 PM

How can anyone tell for sure who is in that KKK outfit? Or was Northam the one in blackface?


gina - 2/3/2019 at 09:36 PM

His nickname back in those days in question.

"It has also emerged that a yearbook from Virginia Military Institute listed “Coonman” as a nickname for Northam. Asked if he thought Northam was racist, McAuliffe said he could not answer the question"

Resignation reportedly forthcoming.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/03/ralph-northam-kaine-warner- trump



[Edited on 2/3/2019 by gina]


BrerRabbit - 2/4/2019 at 05:42 AM

quote:
The left screams "Racism, Bigotry & Homophobia" towards any view that does not fit their agenda.


This whole thing on Northam was started by the right - the photo was unearthed and released by Big League Politics, a website founded by former employees of the far-right Breitbart News. This was an action by conservatives - so maybe the reaction against racism, bigotry, and homophobia is becoming bipartisan. Of course this is a transparent right wing propaganda coup to get the Democrats to eat each other alive. Either way, doesn't matter, regardless of ulterior motive, if racism, bigotry, and homophobia are now ammunition for both sides, this is progress.

It is unfortunate that a good person and dedicated public servant like Northam has to be the fall guy, but perhaps this is a good thing. Democrats are showing that they have the integrity to criticize their own. If Northam resigns it will be honorable.

How many Republicans have ever gracefully resigned when racial and sexual indiscretions came to light? None?









[Edited on 2/4/2019 by BrerRabbit]


cyclone88 - 2/4/2019 at 01:27 PM

Don't yearbooks stop after college?

I can't imagine what kind of circumstances led to such a picture no matter who is in it. This isn't a freshman frat pic. It's medical school where presumably adult future MDs aren't partying in costumes on campus. Geez.


nebish - 2/4/2019 at 05:03 PM

It would be nice if we could measure someone on their words, actions (or in-actions) and accomplishments (or lack thereof) now as opposed to something they did or didn't do 30+ years ago.

His confusing damage control makes it worse though.


BoytonBrother - 2/4/2019 at 05:41 PM

quote:
It would be nice if we could measure someone on their words, actions (or in-actions) and accomplishments (or lack thereof) now as opposed to something they did or didn't do 30+ years ago.


I think he, along with Kavanaugh, are being judged by their actions 30 years ago because of the very specific public office job they are seeking. I’d agree 100% if they were applying for any other job, but when it involves serving the public and making laws, there’s no room for it, especially if there are other candidates who didn’t have those lapses of judgment.


cyclone88 - 2/4/2019 at 05:48 PM

So now the Lt. Gov, who would become gov should Wannabe Michael Jackson step down, denied old charges of sexual assault that were published on an online site at about 3AM this morning.

The Washington Post investigated in 2018 before the Lt. Gov took office & didn't find the allegations credible enough to even make a story.

I'm surprised we have ANYONE willing to run for elected office at any level given the dirt that's dug up or made up against people of all races, genders, and parties.

BTW, if someone is a victim of sexual assault, TELL THE COPS not the news.


BrerRabbit - 2/4/2019 at 07:50 PM

Well at least if Northam resigns we will be spared the president coming up with a nickname for him like "Sambo" or "Shaft". You know that is the next thing that will happen, just wait.


cyclone88 - 2/6/2019 at 06:05 PM

I knew Virginia was backward, but the gov admits to blackface, the Lt Gov has sexual assault allegations, & now the Attorney General (3rd in line) admits to wearing blackface in 1980 at a college party where he was dressed as a rapper. So, who's left? Sounds like there's no one in the state who hasn't worn blackface, a confederate uniform, or KKK hood or waved a confederate flag.


BrerRabbit - 2/7/2019 at 12:31 AM

Well come on, come on down Sweet Virginia,
Come on, honey child, I beg of you.
Come on, come on down, you got it in you.
Got to scrape that shine right off you shoes.


OriginalGoober - 2/7/2019 at 12:55 AM

the American publick can see how differently the tolerant left treats this guy because hes a democrat and many wonder why there is not the rush to judegmement like with Kavanagnaw.


cyclone88 - 2/7/2019 at 01:31 AM

quote:
Well come on, come on down Sweet Virginia,
Come on, honey child, I beg of you.
Come on, come on down, you got it in you.
Got to scrape that shine right off you shoes.



Would those be the shoes Northam wore when moonwalking like MJ?


BrerRabbit - 2/7/2019 at 07:26 PM

quote:
the American publick can see how differently the tolerant left treats this guy because hes a democrat and many wonder why there is not the rush to judegmement like with Kavanagnaw.


Exactlly wrong. You wish it. That is exactly what the right wing stealth media partisans were hoping for, to try to paint the Left into a double standard hypocrisy corner - but the fact is Democrats immediately and overwhelmingly demanded his resignation. Even here in WP libs have not been defending the guy.

Every news source is saying this, from CNN to Fox. Here is a Breitbart article supporting this, since you probably trust Breitbart:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2019/02/01/resignation-calls-for-ralph-n ortham-pile-up-on-the-left/




cyclone88 - 2/7/2019 at 09:57 PM

quote:
Even here in WP libs have not been defending the guy.


No one is defending Northam. IMO, VA is moving slowly because they have to treat the AG the same way - you know, the white UVA student who was a black face rapper - so they lose 2 of the top 3 members of gov't. Not much of an excuse, they both should've been gone as soon as they admitted it, but there's more than the usual calculus.

The faster the Lt Gov is in & a new AG appointed, the more settled the gov't & the party become.


MartinD28 - 2/7/2019 at 10:19 PM

This thing deepens. A GOP Senator in Va added to the starting lineup.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/tommy-norment-racist-yearbook-blackfac e-virginia-senator_us_5c5c6fefe4b0d073e7043f0b


cyclone88 - 2/8/2019 at 12:03 AM

quote:
A GOP Senator in Va added to the starting lineup.


Sounds like there's not a man in the state leg who hasn't appeared in blackface, a confederate uniform, a KKK outfit, or waving a confederate flag. This is the state where Charlottesville happened - over a confederate statue.

Maybe it's time to have an all woman legislature.


MartinD28 - 2/8/2019 at 01:08 AM

quote:
quote:
A GOP Senator in Va added to the starting lineup.


Sounds like there's not a man in the state leg who hasn't appeared in blackface, a confederate uniform, a KKK outfit, or waving a confederate flag. This is the state where Charlottesville happened - over a confederate statue.

Maybe it's time to have an all woman legislature.


And remember that Emperor Don said about C'ville - there are very fine people on both sides when referring to white nationalists.


BIGV - 2/8/2019 at 02:18 AM

quote:
Nice rainbow by Capitol Butte there btw


Thanks!...Timing, just got lucky


nebish - 2/8/2019 at 01:15 PM

As has been stated, Democrats were early and out front on this. Now that it has spiraled into a full-blown cluster-f, I think everyone is confused on how they proceed, so it seems the vigor has died down. I'll say this, when it comes to protests, sit ins, calls for change, outrage...the left is way better at that then the right. So, it does get even more attention and traction when the left is targeting something or someone on the right just because they are better at it and more people on that side seem to care more. For me, this is a Virginia thing and whatever they decide to do with their leadership and accusations is their business.


BIGV - 2/8/2019 at 03:45 PM

quote:
I'll say this, when it comes to protests, sit ins, calls for change, outrage...the left is way better at that then the right.


They certainly lead the way when it comes to being offended.


MartinD28 - 2/8/2019 at 04:46 PM

quote:
quote:
I'll say this, when it comes to protests, sit ins, calls for change, outrage...the left is way better at that then the right.


They certainly lead the way when it comes to being offended.


Fact or opinion? Basis?

This also begs a bigger picture of which side is more diverse & inclusive as opposed to which side attempts to restrict (examples - woman's right to choose, voter suppression, equal pay, etc.). So offensive actions many times have reactions, and actions can consequences.


BIGV - 2/8/2019 at 04:54 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll say this, when it comes to protests, sit ins, calls for change, outrage...the left is way better at that then the right.


They certainly lead the way when it comes to being offended.


Fact or opinion? Basis?

This also begs a bigger picture of which side is more diverse & inclusive as opposed to which side attempts to restrict (examples - woman's right to choose, voter suppression, equal pay, etc.). So offensive actions many times have reactions, and actions can consequences.


I am Pro-Choice and believe you must be a Citizen and present a Valid I.D. to vote.

That being said it is definitely my opinion and nothing more when I write "I believe the left is more easily offended".


BoytonBrother - 2/8/2019 at 05:08 PM

quote:
That being said it is definitely my opinion and nothing more when I write "I believe the left is more easily offended".


Pot meet kettle.


cyclone88 - 2/8/2019 at 05:17 PM

quote:
I am Pro-Choice


I think, given the narrow rules of left/right, that makes you a leftie.


BIGV - 2/8/2019 at 06:13 PM

quote:
quote:
I am Pro-Choice


I think, given the narrow rules of left/right, that makes you a leftie.


And my "Build the wall stance"?...


BoytonBrother - 2/8/2019 at 08:43 PM

quote:
And my "Build the wall stance"?...


Foolish. Cracking down on visa overstays would have a much greater affect.



[Edited on 2/8/2019 by BoytonBrother]


2112 - 2/8/2019 at 10:45 PM

quote:
quote:
And my "Build the wall stance"?...


Foolish. Cracking down on visa overstays would have a much greater affect.



Build a roof!


BIGV - 2/9/2019 at 02:35 AM

https://youtu.be/5aPbefau2Zc

Should Jimmy Kimmel resign?


OriginalGoober - 2/9/2019 at 02:40 AM

quote:
https://youtu.be/5aPbefau2Zc

Should Jimmy Kimmel resign?


No, since he hates President Trump he gets a pass from the tolerant left.


BoytonBrother - 2/9/2019 at 02:57 AM

If ABC determines there is a financial or reputational risk, he will be fired. The victim card won’t work.


BIGV - 2/9/2019 at 03:00 AM

https://youtu.be/OEp5P_Aq3v4

Should Jimmy Fallon resign?


BoytonBrother - 2/9/2019 at 12:37 PM

If there is financial risk for the company, then yes. What don’t you understand about this?


nebish - 2/9/2019 at 04:09 PM

quote:
quote:
And my "Build the wall stance"?...


Foolish. Cracking down on visa overstays would have a much greater affect.



[Edited on 2/8/2019 by BoytonBrother]


Great, let's do both! Personally, I have always wanted more action in all areas to address the illegal immigration problem I have long said, let's throw employers in jail who knowingly hire illegals. Let's come down on every aspect of this problem as hard as we can.

quote:
If ABC determines there is a financial or reputational risk, he will be fired. The victim card won’t work.

quote:
If there is financial risk for the company, then yes. What don’t you understand about this?


Stepping in here on my own behalf, not trying to speak for BigV or anyone. But I wonder, are you condoning putting monetary reasons ahead of moral justification? I mean, is wrong wrong, or is it only wrong in the scope of a financial impact? I actually agree, it is totally up to the networks and the sponsors and how they want to be viewed related to whom they choose to employ. That is how these things usually go, if the offense or action is so bad that there is negative PR coming from it, the network, business, agency, whatever will cut and run - it doesn't necessarily matter if the accusations are true or if issue in question is especially offensive, all that matters is distancing themselves from the individual in an act of self preservation and to avoid controversy. What I'm asking you BoytonBrother, as someone who I think tries to take the righteous stance and cries out against bigotry or racism...if Democrats or Republicans, or voters, or networks, choose to keep their relationship and endorsements for the accused individual because they do not think it will "cost" them anything, are you ok with that? It seems as if you are, when I would think you would be more in line with getting on the side of right vs wrong no matter other aspects or fallout could be in play.


MartinD28 - 2/9/2019 at 06:02 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
And my "Build the wall stance"?...


Foolish. Cracking down on visa overstays would have a much greater affect.



[Edited on 2/8/2019 by BoytonBrother]


Great, let's do both! Personally, I have always wanted more action in all areas to address the illegal immigration problem I have long said, let's throw employers in jail who knowingly hire illegals. Let's come down on every aspect of this problem as hard as we can.

quote:
If ABC determines there is a financial or reputational risk, he will be fired. The victim card won’t work.

quote:
If there is financial risk for the company, then yes. What don’t you understand about this?


Stepping in here on my own behalf, not trying to speak for BigV or anyone. But I wonder, are you condoning putting monetary reasons ahead of moral justification? I mean, is wrong wrong, or is it only wrong in the scope of a financial impact? I actually agree, it is totally up to the networks and the sponsors and how they want to be viewed related to whom they choose to employ. That is how these things usually go, if the offense or action is so bad that there is negative PR coming from it, the network, business, agency, whatever will cut and run - it doesn't necessarily matter if the accusations are true or if issue in question is especially offensive, all that matters is distancing themselves from the individual in an act of self preservation and to avoid controversy. What I'm asking you BoytonBrother, as someone who I think tries to take the righteous stance and cries out against bigotry or racism...if Democrats or Republicans, or voters, or networks, choose to keep their relationship and endorsements for the accused individual because they do not think it will "cost" them anything, are you ok with that? It seems as if you are, when I would think you would be more in line with getting on the side of right vs wrong no matter other aspects or fallout could be in play.


There can be no wall.

The guy who railed in his campaign & still does against illegal immigration depends upon illegal immigrants for his resorts. What applies to the rest of us & USA companies does not apply to the Build The Wall Prez. I guess this doesn't make him a hypocrite? Not only did they work during the construction phases, but illegal immigrants have continued to work in multiple capacities at most of Trump Resorts. So much for the e-verify Trump boasted about. I believe I read they had e-verify at 3 of 12 resorts. Goose / gander?

"More than 100 undocumented immigrants worked at Trump's Bedminster resort during construction"

https://thehill.com/latino/429136-more-than-100-undocumented-immigrants-wor ked-at-trumps-bedminster-resort-during


BrerRabbit - 2/9/2019 at 06:13 PM

BUILD A CLUE


BoytonBrother - 2/9/2019 at 08:04 PM

quote:
What I'm asking you BoytonBrother, as someone who I think tries to take the righteous stance and cries out against bigotry or racism...if Democrats or Republicans, or voters, or networks, choose to keep their relationship and endorsements for the accused individual because they do not think it will "cost" them anything, are you ok with that? It seems as if you are, when I would think you would be more in line with getting on the side of right vs wrong no matter other aspects or fallout could be in play.


Great question. I understand most of us have our biases and axes to grind, but not everyone does have them. Our politicians and judges should be among the latter so as to always put logic and reason first, and not let biases get in the way. The choice to paint your face black understably creates doubt and questions.......there shouldn't be doubt and questions when it comes to fair law-making. Mistakes like that can't be made when governing a municipality and its constituents. So yes, whether Democrat or Republican, I'd want them to step down to avoid any possibility of prejudiced law-making.

In BIGV's example, however, it's a comedy talk show. Capitalism should ultimatley determine what happens because it's entertainment, and it should never be censored. If a network hired Ted Nugent to do a talk show, and it garnered enough viewers to be profitable, then more power to them all. BIGV's posts suggest he thinks it's unfair and a double-standard for Roseanne to be fired, but Kimmel and Fallon get a pass, playing the victim card as usual. But lets keep it real....one is clearly a hostile racist bigot, and the other isn't. To suggest that they are the same is just silly and childish. So, to answer your question, if Fallon and Kimmel did something that was clearly hostile, racist, and bigoted, then yes, I'd be against it and stop watching, and if they got fired because of the financial harm they caused ABC, then they made their own bed.


BoytonBrother - 2/9/2019 at 08:04 PM



[Edited on 2/9/2019 by BoytonBrother]


nebish - 2/9/2019 at 08:50 PM

quote:
quote:
What I'm asking you BoytonBrother, as someone who I think tries to take the righteous stance and cries out against bigotry or racism...if Democrats or Republicans, or voters, or networks, choose to keep their relationship and endorsements for the accused individual because they do not think it will "cost" them anything, are you ok with that? It seems as if you are, when I would think you would be more in line with getting on the side of right vs wrong no matter other aspects or fallout could be in play.


Great question. I understand most of us have our biases and axes to grind, but not everyone does have them. Our politicians and judges should be among the latter so as to always put logic and reason first, and not let biases get in the way. The choice to paint your face black understably creates doubt and questions.......there shouldn't be doubt and questions when it comes to fair law-making. Mistakes like that can't be made when governing a municipality and its constituents. So yes, whether Democrat or Republican, I'd want them to step down to avoid any possibility of prejudiced law-making.

In BIGV's example, however, it's a comedy talk show. Capitalism should ultimatley determine what happens because it's entertainment, and it should never be censored. If a network hired Ted Nugent to do a talk show, and it garnered enough viewers to be profitable, then more power to them all. BIGV's posts suggest he thinks it's unfair and a double-standard for Roseanne to be fired, but Kimmel and Fallon get a pass, playing the victim card as usual. But lets keep it real....one is clearly a hostile racist bigot, and the other isn't. To suggest that they are the same is just silly and childish. So, to answer your question, if Fallon and Kimmel did something that was clearly hostile, racist, and bigoted, then yes, I'd be against it and stop watching, and if they got fired because of the financial harm they caused ABC, then they made their own bed.


Thank you for that.


nebish - 2/9/2019 at 09:11 PM

quote:

There can be no wall.

The guy who railed in his campaign & still does against illegal immigration depends upon illegal immigrants for his resorts. What applies to the rest of us & USA companies does not apply to the Build The Wall Prez. I guess this doesn't make him a hypocrite? Not only did they work during the construction phases, but illegal immigrants have continued to work in multiple capacities at most of Trump Resorts. So much for the e-verify Trump boasted about. I believe I read they had e-verify at 3 of 12 resorts. Goose / gander?

"More than 100 undocumented immigrants worked at Trump's Bedminster resort during construction"

https://thehill.com/latino/429136-more-than-100-undocumented-immigrants-wor ked-at-trumps-bedminster-resort-during


Martin, I say this to you as one of the contributors here I look forward to hearing from, I believe you have the ability to see the bigger picture.

You are you, I am me, Trump is Trump. Just because Trump says or does something contradictory regarding an issue (which is quite often), that should not discredit the issue at large.

Trump has never walked the walk. I would say "we should have more things made in the USA" and somebody might say "yeah well Trump doesn't make his stuff here". While that is true and I agree that ignores and in some ways, eliminates meaningful discussion that could be had on that issue.

Why would you say that there "can be no wall" just because there were illegal aliens working at Trump properties and Trump projects? I get that you want to further make Trump's hypocritical or even criminal actions known, but regardless of who or who didn't work for Trump's businesses, that should have nothing to do with the need of a wall to keep more illegals from entering.

We should have mandatory e-verify. I understand that Trump's businesses did not all use e-verify....but that doesn't mean anything for the overall issue. It might mean something specific to him and his credibility, but the fact of the matter is we need to have our employers check the status of prospective employees with a system that can give them a green or red light for hiring them. If the system clears them and the employee has presented fraudulent documentation to get hired, that isn't the employer's fault at that point, that is the system's fault. So in that case the employer should have no liability for illegally hiring them. The people we need to crack down on are the ones that look the other way or purposefully seek illegal aliens to hire. But first and foremost, everyone must be using the same system to check against creating a standard to judge everyone by. Why is there resistance to mandating a nationwide e-verify system for employers? We need that because that is part of what can decrease demand for illegal labor and if we can push that demand down then it has a positive effect on the flow coming in (or overstaying). That needs to be a big part of the overall enforcement to fight the problem - whether Trump uses it or not, the country should.

I know this forum has spiraled down and there isn't much in the way of good exchanges any more, but we make it what it is with our posts. I'm not trying to get you or anyone to stop criticizing Trump, bash away, there are certainly plenty of cause to do so. But when everything boils down to that we lose the ability to speak to each other and I like to think we can still have some of that here.


pops42 - 2/9/2019 at 09:12 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
And my "Build the wall stance"?...


Foolish. Cracking down on visa overstays would have a much greater affect.



[Edited on 2/8/2019 by BoytonBrother]


Great, let's do both! Personally, I have always wanted more action in all areas to address the illegal immigration problem I have long said, let's throw employers in jail who knowingly hire illegals. Let's come down on every aspect of this problem as hard as we can.

quote:
If ABC determines there is a financial or reputational risk, he will be fired. The victim card won’t work.

quote:
If there is financial risk for the company, then yes. What don’t you understand about this?


Stepping in here on my own behalf, not trying to speak for BigV or anyone. But I wonder, are you condoning putting monetary reasons ahead of moral justification? I mean, is wrong wrong, or is it only wrong in the scope of a financial impact? I actually agree, it is totally up to the networks and the sponsors and how they want to be viewed related to whom they choose to employ. That is how these things usually go, if the offense or action is so bad that there is negative PR coming from it, the network, business, agency, whatever will cut and run - it doesn't necessarily matter if the accusations are true or if issue in question is especially offensive, all that matters is distancing themselves from the individual in an act of self preservation and to avoid controversy. What I'm asking you BoytonBrother, as someone who I think tries to take the righteous stance and cries out against bigotry or racism...if Democrats or Republicans, or voters, or networks, choose to keep their relationship and endorsements for the accused individual because they do not think it will "cost" them anything, are you ok with that? It seems as if you are, when I would think you would be more in line with getting on the side of right vs wrong no matter other aspects or fallout could be in play.


There can be no wall.

The guy who railed in his campaign & still does against illegal immigration depends upon illegal immigrants for his resorts. What applies to the rest of us & USA companies does not apply to the Build The Wall Prez. I guess this doesn't make him a hypocrite? Not only did they work during the construction phases, but illegal immigrants have continued to work in multiple capacities at most of Trump Resorts. So much for the e-verify Trump boasted about. I believe I read they had e-verify at 3 of 12 resorts. Goose / gander?

"More than 100 undocumented immigrants worked at Trump's Bedminster resort during construction"

https://thehill.com/latino/429136-more-than-100-undocumented-immigrants-wor ked-at-trumps-bedminster-resort-during
This!


cyclone88 - 2/9/2019 at 09:33 PM

quote:

I know this forum has spiraled down and there isn't much in the way of good exchanges any more, but we make it what it is with our posts. I'm not trying to get you or anyone to stop criticizing Trump, bash away, there are certainly plenty of cause to do so. But when everything boils down to that we lose the ability to speak to each other and I like to think we can still have some of that here.


I'm not jumping in to respond for Martin, but I also wish there were more exchanges than those who go off the rails when something gets interesting. There are people here who have expertise as well as a different perspective that is helpful when thinking about a topic.

IMO, RICO charges are coming for Trump within the next 5 years. So, we have the equivalent of Don Corleone in the WH & are trying to find the ways to discuss around that big glaring fact. I don't think it can be done. I do think we can be civil to each other.

Apologies to Martin.


MartinD28 - 2/9/2019 at 09:52 PM

quote:
quote:

There can be no wall.

The guy who railed in his campaign & still does against illegal immigration depends upon illegal immigrants for his resorts. What applies to the rest of us & USA companies does not apply to the Build The Wall Prez. I guess this doesn't make him a hypocrite? Not only did they work during the construction phases, but illegal immigrants have continued to work in multiple capacities at most of Trump Resorts. So much for the e-verify Trump boasted about. I believe I read they had e-verify at 3 of 12 resorts. Goose / gander?

"More than 100 undocumented immigrants worked at Trump's Bedminster resort during construction"

https://thehill.com/latino/429136-more-than-100-undocumented-immigrants-wor ked-at-trumps-bedminster-resort-during


Martin, I say this to you as one of the contributors here I look forward to hearing from, I believe you have the ability to see the bigger picture.

You are you, I am me, Trump is Trump. Just because Trump says or does something contradictory regarding an issue (which is quite often), that should not discredit the issue at large.

Trump has never walked the walk. I would say "we should have more things made in the USA" and somebody might say "yeah well Trump doesn't make his stuff here". While that is true and I agree that ignores and in some ways, eliminates meaningful discussion that could be had on that issue.

Why would you say that there "can be no wall" just because there were illegal aliens working at Trump properties and Trump projects? I get that you want to further make Trump's hypocritical or even criminal actions known, but regardless of who or who didn't work for Trump's businesses, that should have nothing to do with the need of a wall to keep more illegals from entering.

We should have mandatory e-verify. I understand that Trump's businesses did not all use e-verify....but that doesn't mean anything for the overall issue. It might mean something specific to him and his credibility, but the fact of the matter is we need to have our employers check the status of prospective employees with a system that can give them a green or red light for hiring them. If the system clears them and the employee has presented fraudulent documentation to get hired, that isn't the employer's fault at that point, that is the system's fault. So in that case the employer should have no liability for illegally hiring them. The people we need to crack down on are the ones that look the other way or purposefully seek illegal aliens to hire. But first and foremost, everyone must be using the same system to check against creating a standard to judge everyone by. Why is there resistance to mandating a nationwide e-verify system for employers? We need that because that is part of what can decrease demand for illegal labor and if we can push that demand down then it has a positive effect on the flow coming in (or overstaying). That needs to be a big part of the overall enforcement to fight the problem - whether Trump uses it or not, the country should.

I know this forum has spiraled down and there isn't much in the way of good exchanges any more, but we make it what it is with our posts. I'm not trying to get you or anyone to stop criticizing Trump, bash away, there are certainly plenty of cause to do so. But when everything boils down to that we lose the ability to speak to each other and I like to think we can still have some of that here.


Ok Neb - will address a few of your points.

I said "there can be no wall" tongue in cheek as a result of the gross and factual hypocrisy of Trump's words vs actions. I have mixed emotions on a wall. He is a major abuser of his own campaign rhetoric. This should give pause to even his most ardent supporters, but I'm not sure they really care, because we've been told too many times that "Trump is different" or "that's just Donald". Sorry, that is unacceptable. He's an abuser on this issue and so many other issues. The others are for a different discussion.

I'm skeptical of the wall cost benefit to start off with. I'm also suspect of the dollar estimates which have been all over the board for the bottom line costs. Then there is the entire eminent domain issue. How many of the dedicated Trump voters who have land along the border would actually would be willing to be paid off for portions of their land? When the rubber hits the road, I'll bet you'd see a lot of these dedicated Trumpsters become less than enthusiastic over the taking of their property. Also, there are portions of the path that run through bodies of water, and that adds to the complexities / practicality of construction.

Right or wrong, a portion of our economy is dependent upon immigrants - some legal & some illegal. That's an issue that needs to be dealt with one way or another. A crack down on the illegals has its impact to many businesses. Again, I'm not making a case pro or con here. Instead I'm pointing out that there's an issue that we either turn our heads or deal with the fallout.

Then there is the biggest issue of all. Trump campaigned religiously that Mexico would pay for the wall. Many of his followers were suckered into the grand lie. It's absolutely pathetic on his part and his sycophants to pivot from that and now expect the American taxpayers to pay for wall that was nothing more than a catch phrase that contributed to his winning the election. Is was a con then and is a con now. But recently he has shifted on Mexico paying for the wall directly to now Mexico indirectly paying for it via new trade agreements and enhanced revenue. What a load he offers.

Border security comes in various flavors. A continuous wall seems impractical. Maybe sections are more realistic in conjunction with enhanced border security. We need to think in terms of today's world - tools, methods, and technology; not necessarily in old age ideas like a Great Wall Of China.

Hope that helps out. It's a start...maybe more I could post but enough for food for thought.


nebish - 2/9/2019 at 11:50 PM

quote:
Ok Neb - will address a few of your points.

I said "there can be no wall" tongue in cheek as a result of the gross and factual hypocrisy of Trump's words vs actions. I have mixed emotions on a wall. He is a major abuser of his own campaign rhetoric. This should give pause to even his most ardent supporters, but I'm not sure they really care, because we've been told too many times that "Trump is different" or "that's just Donald". Sorry, that is unacceptable. He's an abuser on this issue and so many other issues. The others are for a different discussion.

I'm skeptical of the wall cost benefit to start off with. I'm also suspect of the dollar estimates which have been all over the board for the bottom line costs. Then there is the entire eminent domain issue. How many of the dedicated Trump voters who have land along the border would actually would be willing to be paid off for portions of their land? When the rubber hits the road, I'll bet you'd see a lot of these dedicated Trumpsters become less than enthusiastic over the taking of their property. Also, there are portions of the path that run through bodies of water, and that adds to the complexities / practicality of construction.

Right or wrong, a portion of our economy is dependent upon immigrants - some legal & some illegal. That's an issue that needs to be dealt with one way or another. A crack down on the illegals has its impact to many businesses. Again, I'm not making a case pro or con here. Instead I'm pointing out that there's an issue that we either turn our heads or deal with the fallout.

Then there is the biggest issue of all. Trump campaigned religiously that Mexico would pay for the wall. Many of his followers were suckered into the grand lie. It's absolutely pathetic on his part and his sycophants to pivot from that and now expect the American taxpayers to pay for wall that was nothing more than a catch phrase that contributed to his winning the election. Is was a con then and is a con now. But recently he has shifted on Mexico paying for the wall directly to now Mexico indirectly paying for it via new trade agreements and enhanced revenue. What a load he offers.

Border security comes in various flavors. A continuous wall seems impractical. Maybe sections are more realistic in conjunction with enhanced border security. We need to think in terms of today's world - tools, methods, and technology; not necessarily in old age ideas like a Great Wall Of China.

Hope that helps out. It's a start...maybe more I could post but enough for food for thought.


It does help. This thread has gone way off topic, par, but I'll take discussions where I can get them.

You are right on every single one of your points.

I agree, Trump is way overstating what actually could be built at the border and what ultimate effect more barriers will have.

I agree, everyone should question where the dollar figure is coming from and what actually that will give us, and where. I will give CBP the benefit of the doubt that somebody in that organization knows what is needed where. They awarded contracts for some of the FY2018 budget money to border wall projects, so they know what is needed where. The President has never told anyone this leading to further skepticism and suspicion. I assume the 17-member Congressional Committee has been given this information.

Taking land away is an issue, that needs addressed, and perhaps that limits where they can build. Remember, the topic now is not a wall the entire length of the border - if nothing else, I think that Trump's opponents can take credit into bringing the President to a much more realistic position.

I agree that we need immigrants and I would even concede that this economy is to an extend dependent on illegal immigrant labor and some employers abuse it - but that is wrong and just because it has been the way we have done things doesn't mean that we should allow it to continue that way. I don't have to tell you, just look at any major issue the left wants to change, see how much resistance to change there is. Look at how much resistance to change there is on this issue. All these big issues have gotten so out of control that it is like moving a mountain - but just because something is overwhelming and difficult means we must leave it status quo.

I agree...we were told, Mexico would pay for it. There is no defense to that, and the fact that Trump is President and he is still wanting a wall (a different wall now, but still) and Mexico is not paying for it (as if they ever would) - I mean, it poisons this whole issue. I know. If there was a direct tax on Mexican and Central American imports, a direct tariff, call it the "Border Security Tariff" where the moneys paid on those goods goes directly to this issue. I know what you will say to this, anyway, that is not where we are. But, here is where I am at...we have decided that some areas needed a wall (fence, barrier, etc) in our past. The need for this type of border security is not complete. There was just a story out of Tucson where 325 Central Americans, nearly half of which were children, were bused to an area where only vehicle barriers existed, a barrier that does nothing to slow or stop foot traffic - and here they are in our country willingly surrendering, waiting to be caught, and now we have to deal with them. Put more barriers up to make entry more challenging, more deterrence, apparently it is still too easy as apprehensions continue to climb.

All the other means of security are good too, the sensors, the drones, the cameras, the agents (which getting people to do this work is challenging, just because the want X agents doesn't mean they can hire that many) - that is all well and good, but we should not have to be dealing with these immigrants in this way, this is the wrong way to immigrate to this country. The barriers makes it harder on them, just like hopefully, like more gun laws will make it harder for the wrong people to obtain weapons.

I am trying to do the impossible...I talk to my Trump friends who always defend Trump and I point out the issues on the other side. I talk to my liberal friends and family members and I try to explain things as I see it on this side.

At the end of the day, we don't count for anything here, our opinions and our words typed out. It is just the fact of acknowledging where the other side raises good points and hopefully making your own opponents understand your own. One of my friends say "Democrats aren't doing what is best for this country, they aren't doing the right thing" and I say, "they say the same thing about you".

Trump will be gone at some point, but illegal immigration is going to continue to be a problem...wall or no wall. I just try and figure it out in my head as best I can.


BIGV - 2/10/2019 at 02:31 PM

Either this "Blackface" thing is racist, or it is not. There is no grey area.

Why is it Racist if the Governor of Virginia dons this mask, but not when Hollywood celebrities do it?

OK, OK will come the rebuttal "Don't you get it"?...lol...If Kimmel and Fallon can hide behind the "Lighthearted comedy" reasoning....Why can not the Governor do the same? Was not the photo taken at a Party?

Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.

OMG, How would this society react if a video of President Trump emerged in said blackface while he was a College student at a Frat Party? Would that be "Lighthearted Comedy" ?


BrerRabbit - 2/10/2019 at 04:38 PM

Social codes of conduct change over time.


Bhawk - 2/10/2019 at 04:38 PM

quote:
Either this "Blackface" thing is racist, or it is not. There is no grey area.

Why is it Racist if the Governor of Virginia dons this mask, but not when Hollywood celebrities do it?

OK, OK will come the rebuttal "Don't you get it"?...lol...If Kimmel and Fallon can hide behind the "Lighthearted comedy" reasoning....Why can not the Governor do the same? Was not the photo taken at a Party?

Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.

OMG, How would this society react if a video of President Trump emerged in said blackface while he was a College student at a Frat Party? Would that be "Lighthearted Comedy" ?


Since you've framed this argument in that there is no difference between a paid actor and an elected official, then the answer is...the society would split in flames 50/50 and eventually nothing would happen.

We are in the era of post-truth, all actions can be rationalized, including any sense of right and wrong. Trump has done one very critical thing and I give him full credit for it. The idea of higher standards for people in higher places has been permanently destroyed. Once everyone is on the same level, then there are no more levels to choose from. Everyone is as guilty as anyone else.

quote:
Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.


To isolate this a little...and with all due respect...this belief is going to come in direct conflict quickly with your abhorrence of "PC" reactions and ridiculing the easily offended.


BoytonBrother - 2/10/2019 at 06:12 PM

quote:
Either this "Blackface" thing is racist, or it is not. There is no grey area.


Wrong. Context matters. This is very close-minded, simple, and lazy.

quote:
Why is it Racist if the Governor of Virginia dons this mask, but not when Hollywood celebrities do it?


Go ask the fringe people on Twitter that you foolishly believe represent our country. Put the phone down.

quote:
OK, OK will come the rebuttal "Don't you get it"?...lol...If Kimmel and Fallon can hide behind the "Lighthearted comedy" reasoning....Why can not the Governor do the same? Was not the photo taken at a Party?

Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.


If you expect our lawmakers and comedians to be held to the same moral standard, then you are a fool, I'm sorry.

quote:
OMG, How would this society react if a video of President Trump emerged in said blackface while he was a College student at a Frat Party? Would that be "Lighthearted Comedy" ?


I would hope we all want our President to be held to a higher standard than a comedy show.....the fact that this confuses you is scary.


BoytonBrother - 2/10/2019 at 06:21 PM

quote:
To isolate this a little...and with all due respect...this belief is going to come in direct conflict quickly with your abhorrence of "PC" reactions and ridiculing the easily offended.


Don't expect a discussion on this very good point. When exposed, he either ignores it, pivots the argument, or bails entirely. Not too much intellectual agility here.


BIGV - 2/10/2019 at 07:18 PM

quote:
quote:
Either this "Blackface" thing is racist, or it is not. There is no grey area.

Why is it Racist if the Governor of Virginia dons this mask, but not when Hollywood celebrities do it?

OK, OK will come the rebuttal "Don't you get it"?...lol...If Kimmel and Fallon can hide behind the "Lighthearted comedy" reasoning....Why can not the Governor do the same? Was not the photo taken at a Party?

Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.

OMG, How would this society react if a video of President Trump emerged in said blackface while he was a College student at a Frat Party? Would that be "Lighthearted Comedy" ?


Since you've framed this argument in that there is no difference between a paid actor and an elected official, then the answer is...the society would split in flames 50/50 and eventually nothing would happen.

We are in the era of post-truth, all actions can be rationalized, including any sense of right and wrong. Trump has done one very critical thing and I give him full credit for it. The idea of higher standards for people in higher places has been permanently destroyed. Once everyone is on the same level, then there are no more levels to choose from. Everyone is as guilty as anyone else.

quote:
Either everyone is held to the same standard or the hypocrisy becomes the brightest light.


To isolate this a little...and with all due respect...this belief is going to come in direct conflict quickly with your abhorrence of "PC" reactions and ridiculing the easily offended.


Funny, but two of the characters in the media leading the charge against the Governor from Virginia were none other than Fallon and Kimmel, who have been dead silent since the photos and videos of them doing the same thing have surfaced.....


BoytonBrother - 2/10/2019 at 08:08 PM

In reality, there's no way to know what the general population is feeling or thinking about these stories...it's bizarre that people read an article online and believe it represents everyone in America. But this happens...just look at some of the posts here..."Why is it racist when the Governor does it but not Hollywood", as if this is some fact somewhere. Who determined this, and why are you listening to it? At the end of day, it's just b*tching about other people's thoughts. Why care?


nebish - 2/11/2019 at 02:32 PM

Back and forth BigV and Boyton go. Thread by thread, there they are. It's probably the best ongoing rivalry we have here I suppose. Keeps things interesting atleast.

If Northam had done this as an elected official, if he did is last year instead of last century for me personally I would feel differently about this.

There are some that feel that black face is always wrong and never acceptable. I don't see it that way. Different people get offended by different things, reactions don't need to be universal and uniform. I honestly couldn't care what he dressed up as when he was in his 20s. What is his record as a professional or politician and how does he live his life today, that is what matters I'd think.

As for the sexual assault allegations, who should we believe? Why should I believe the accuser, why should I believe the accused? Without testimony, witnesses, evidence, prosecution and defense with verdict...how can anyone know? Certainly false accusations happen...and certainly some legitimate victims do not press charges or take action. Because I will never know what really happened and who is telling the truth in absence of some investigation I can't pass judgement and say he is guilty or innocent really.

It doesn't matter if they are Democrat or Republicans to me, I'm not a racist, I'm not a bigot...to a large extent, I guess I just don't care because how or why should I care when I will never know the truth of the matter. It's unfair to the supposed victim, it's unfair to the supposed perpetrator, but it is what it is. Lots of things happen to people in life that isn't fair that never get corrected or acknowledged. There are many things in life we will never know the truth on, so why get all worked up?


cyclone88 - 2/11/2019 at 03:51 PM

quote:

As for the sexual assault allegations, who should we believe? Why should I believe the accuser, why should I believe the accused? Without testimony, witnesses, evidence, prosecution and defense with verdict...how can anyone know? Certainly false accusations happen...and certainly some legitimate victims do not press charges or take action. Because I will never know what really happened and who is telling the truth in absence of some investigation I can't pass judgement and say he is guilty or innocent really.


The rape allegation by the Duke student bothers me because she had the opportunity to go to the police in 2000, let them investigate, and Fairfax would either have been charged or not. She didn't do that. She didn't do that when she alleges she was raped in 1999 by a Duke basketball player. This woman claims to have been raped by two different men within 2 years on the Duke campus and didn't go to the police. There's no information about her allegation against the basketball player.

However, the information she herself provided through her lawyers re Fairfax is that she told friends via email & Facebook that Fairfax had raped her, but didn't go to the cops. She deprived herself & Fairfax the opportunity of a contemporaneous investigation that is the type most likely to be successful. North Carolina doesn't have a statue of limitations on felonies so she could've told the cops at any time, but she refuses.

She keeps silent for 18 years until Fairfax was about to be inaugurated as Lt. Gov & once again, doesn't go to the cops, she goes to the Washington Post. The newspaper doesn't print her story because there's no way to corroborate what she's saying & newspapers require evidence/confirmation from objective sources before printing. When that didn't work, she hired a lawyer who tweeted her story days before Fairfax was about to become governor when Northam was about to step down. None of this sounds like a victim wanting justice for her attacker; it sounds like a woman acting for political reasons.





BIGV - 2/11/2019 at 04:31 PM

quote:
Back and forth BigV and Boyton go. Thread by thread, there they are. It's probably the best ongoing rivalry we have here I suppose. Keeps things interesting atleast.


Here is the difference in my humble opinion. When I have a belief or a criticism about something Political in any thread in the Whipping Post, I state my thoughts and in doing so defame or speak negatively about no other member here. My comments are directed at a thing, a set of beliefs espoused by a voting block or a group of elected officials. I do not stoop to name calling of any type, never have. Now whether or not I substantiate my position to the satisfaction of anyone else here, bothers me not, never has. My views are mine alone and can be categorized in anyway the reader chooses. But they sure seem to get under the skin of another participant here who feels it is in his best interest to resort to defamation all because I have made my disdain for the Democratic Party evident and that bothers him immensely. I mean, how can such an inane viewpoint even possibly exist? The strongest and "meanest" (LOL) word I have ever used in retort of such audacity is, "Troll" and is applicable because, well, that shoe fits rather snuggly. Look through all of these threads where this "rivalry" supposedly exists and judge for yourself exactly who is loosing their cool. If you don't agree with what I have written and believe I will not respond, simply walk away.

This rivalry as stated exists only in the eyes of one person. Said person may continue their obsession with quoting my words and literally begging for a response all while complaining loudly when none appear.

I have chosen to no longer interact with anyone who is moments away from another tantrum pertaining to a viewpoint shared on a musical message board that "someone" finds objectionable. Said individual's reply is most assuredly going to contain a varied assortment of epithets, the latest of which I have copied and placed in Roland's "Warning" thread. (This type of wisdom and effusive communication warrants being read by all). Condescending? Perhaps. Sarcastic? Definitely, but a quantum leap above a calculated insult; these are carefully chosen judgments, with the intention and object to malign, directed at someone you will never meet face to face.

Decide for yourself if you wish, I choose to remain above that type of outburst firmly believing regardless of what people here say and however you may interpret said words, that type of communication belongs in a schoolyard.

See you all on the boards.


nebish - 2/11/2019 at 04:32 PM

Good points cyclone, I read your thread on it too. Some victims are going to appear suspicious, others will appear more credible. I just know that I am not going to put in the time to learn about the specific cases to form an opinion because I can never have all the facts the way law enforcement or the judicial process would. I agree with you, the best thing any victim can do is report the assault or incident. I also understand there are reasons that victims do not report. It is a sad and difficult issue to work through. You have unique background on it, I'm sure you have seen alot of different things on why some victims don't want to report.


BoytonBrother - 2/11/2019 at 06:35 PM

quote:
I state my thoughts and in doing so defame or speak negatively about no other member here. My comments are directed at a thing, a set of beliefs espoused by a voting block or a group of elected officials. I do not stoop to name calling of any type, never have.


This is the height of delusion. You post a non-stop stream of bigoted comments, then say “I never name-called.” And? What is your point? Name-calling is not nearly as bad as the bigotry you’ve posted. You are a mess bro.

quote:
I have made my disdain for the Democratic Party evident and that bothers him immensely. I mean, how can such an inane viewpoint even possibly exist?


It’s not your viewpoint, it’s that you are pompous and inflammatory when describing your viewpoint...you can’t express your views without insulting other people.

quote:
Look through all of these threads where this "rivalry" supposedly exists and judge for yourself exactly who is loosing their cool. This rivalry as stated exists only in the eyes of one person..


Please, you dish it out just as much. Stop.

quote:
I have chosen to no longer interact with anyone who is moments away from another tantrum pertaining to a viewpoint shared on a musical message board that "someone" finds objectionable. Said individual's reply is most assuredly going to contain a varied assortment of epithets, the latest of which I have copied and placed in Roland's "Warning" thread. (This type of wisdom and effusive communication warrants being read by all). Condescending? Perhaps. Sarcastic? Definitely, but a quantum leap above a calculated insult; these are carefully chosen judgments, with the intention and object to malign, directed at someone you will never meet face to face.


You post bigotry time and time again, and then play the victim card instead of discussing it. See you on the boards!


cyclone88 - 2/11/2019 at 07:01 PM

quote:
Good points cyclone, I read your thread on it too. Some victims are going to appear suspicious, others will appear more credible. I just know that I am not going to put in the time to learn about the specific cases to form an opinion because I can never have all the facts the way law enforcement or the judicial process would. I agree with you, the best thing any victim can do is report the assault or incident. I also understand there are reasons that victims do not report. It is a sad and difficult issue to work through. You have unique background on it, I'm sure you have seen alot of different things on why some victims don't want to report.


Thanks for taking the time to read. It's a horrible crime.

I don't have access to anything more than the news re these two women's allegations, but I was stunned that the former Gov. of Virginia immediately dubbed the Duke student's allegations "credible" & called for the Lt.G to resign.

Without a police report & just looking at some Facebook posts, I doubt he can claim they're "credible" any more than I can. What CAN be done is to investigate the incidents, come to a conclusion, and proceed with knowledge. I think it's premature for anyone to call for the Lt.Gov's resignation w/o an investigation.

There are many reasons women don't report sexual assaults, but the perpetrator is going to continue to make them if his crimes aren't reported. Rape specialists are trained to make reporting the crime less traumatic than it could be, to spot why a victim might be terrified if threatened by the perpetrator & take the steps to protect her, and to stay w/her through trial. They are also trained to spot false allegations. By not reporting the crime, victims expose themselves to further damage. SO, IF YOU'RE ASSAULTED, TELL THE COPS.


LUKE - 2/12/2019 at 08:28 PM

What if one dress's up like an indian,chinese dish washer,eskimo,muslim,etc etc etc etc etc.Is that racist as well?How would one dress up as BuckWheat without painting their skin black if they were white?Or is BuchWheat racist now as well?What if a black person dressed up as Col Sander's and painted their skin white,would not that be racist as well?Just sayin!The shoe can fit more than one foot.


BrerRabbit - 2/12/2019 at 09:53 PM


2112 - 2/13/2019 at 12:25 AM

quote:
OMG, How would this society react if a video of President Trump emerged in said blackface while he was a College student at a Frat Party? Would that be "Lighthearted Comedy" ?


It wouldn't be the worst thing he's done. Not even in the top 10 worst things he's done.


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