Thread: Gibson guitars

OriginalGoober - 5/3/2018 at 12:34 AM

Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


StratDal - 5/3/2018 at 01:02 AM

quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Blaming Gibson's woes on President Obama? Really? How about Gibson breaking the law by using wood products that are banned due to environmental concerns plus just plain making poor business decisions by leveraging itself with too much debt.

As far as "Obama the disaster", the country's economy (GDP growth and employment) was healthier when he left than when he took over. The current president sure had it better when he took office than President Obama.

BTW, what's the price of gas out your way Goob and how much has it increased since the beginning of the year?

[Edited on 5/3/2018 by StratDal]


pops42 - 5/3/2018 at 01:37 AM

quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.
trump loves the stupid. You are his boy.


BrerRabbit - 5/3/2018 at 01:41 AM

quote:
Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.


No doubt, we should follow China's example. Democracy sucks.


porkchopbob - 5/3/2018 at 12:24 PM

Ha, this is a stretch, even for you, Goobs. Did Obama kill Toys R Us too? And where was Obama when the Dodo was in trouble? You do know that the Department of Justice isn't the President's personal stormtroopers, right?

What ever happened to owning up to business model failures, like over-saturating the market and inflating resale value causing massive company debt? And facing the music when you break Federal law? But when the President keeps making mistakes and blaming everyone around him, you get people like you, Goobs, who think that's totally ok. Accountability is the difference in philosophy.

[Edited on 5/3/2018 by porkchopbob]


BoytonBrother - 5/3/2018 at 03:55 PM

Funny how other instrument manufacturers are doing just fine. Blaming politics....how weak and sad, lol.


BoytonBrother - 5/3/2018 at 08:15 PM

I know a guy who keeps blaming Obama because he canít grow his business. How did all the others manage?


Muleman1994 - 5/7/2018 at 03:29 PM

quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.



The wood was the excuse Obama's militant EPA used to raid Gibson in full military gear with automatic weapons drawn and pointed at the employees.

Martin guitars was also "visited" by Gov't agents dressed in suits and in a non-threatening manner.

The difference was because Gibson's CEO made contributions to Republican candidates and Obama had to have them punished.


BoytonBrother - 5/7/2018 at 03:39 PM

Fake news


Bhawk - 5/7/2018 at 05:47 PM

quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.


BrerRabbit - 5/7/2018 at 07:48 PM

Nope. You just don't get it: Republicans are incapable of committing crimes.


OriginalGoober - 5/8/2018 at 01:03 AM

quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.


If only Hillarys server was made of exotic wood, Obama might have payed more attention then.


BrerRabbit - 5/8/2018 at 01:46 AM

You'd like to give hilary some exotic wood I bet.


pops42 - 5/8/2018 at 02:44 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.


If only Hillarys server was made of exotic wood, Obama might have payed more attention then.
Yessir, trump LOVES the under-educated, and gullible!. he's got a chubby just for YOU glueber!.


StratDal - 5/8/2018 at 02:03 PM

quote:
You'd like to give hilary some exotic wood I bet.


NOOOOO... The visual from hell...

Must.Clear.Mind.Now. Help me... please help me...


Muleman1994 - 5/8/2018 at 03:18 PM

quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.


StratDal - 5/8/2018 at 03:40 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.


porkchopbob - 5/8/2018 at 03:46 PM

quote:
You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.



The policy isn't domestic, it's international law at the behest of South America and Africa to curb over-harvesting African and Brazilian rosewoods by smugglers mostly to your favorite country, China.

There are a lot of B.S. articles that have tried to make this a political thing, which you have blindly bought into (big surprise). The fact is guitar makers can still import rosewoods (Martin uses a lot of Indian rosewood), it's just much more difficult. Gibson did it illegally and had to pay for breaking the law.


Muleman1994 - 5/8/2018 at 04:02 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.


BrerRabbit - 5/8/2018 at 04:57 PM

It isn't a partisan issue at all. Martin was careful to follow the guidelines, but there are quite a few luthiers here in NoCal and the PacNW who have stockpiles of wood that became illegal under the new rules, who are plenty scared since the Gibson raid. These guys, one mentioned in this article below who I know and have worked with personally, have their retirement tied up in these materials. They aren't counting on politics to give them a pass on this, they are deep blue Northern California hippies - the craft has become pretty hush hush. I am having a guitar made right now from wood that was originally earmarked for a guitar for David Crosby in the 80s, but his guitar wasn't made. Not gonna mention what who or where - so you see even "lefties" are under the gun. I would bet that most of the artisans now flying under the radar now are old "lefties", so just because Gibson had Republican ties means nothing. It is silly argument.

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/2295235-181/feds-guitar-wood-raid-hits

[Edited on 5/8/2018 by BrerRabbit]


Bhawk - 5/8/2018 at 05:14 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




Please describe, in detail, how the material impact of the $611,844 in settlement costs in 2012 is connected to the $500 million in debt that Gibson is carrying in 2018. Thanks in advance!


porkchopbob - 5/8/2018 at 05:16 PM

Right on, Brer. There are guitars that have been made and sold that could potentially get confiscated if it's found they used illegal woods. But the guitar market is such a small part of this issue, which is largely thanks to China illegal importing tons of rare woods to make imitation relic furniture. But Mule worships China for some reason (maybe he gets his Rhino Horn pills from there), so I'm not really sure why he thinks the Obama administration was picking on a guitar manufacturer that was failing for so many other financial reasons. Which is a shame, I love Gibson instruments and want them to succeed, just maybe without breaking international law meant to preserve tree species. It's comical anyone would turn this into a partisan issue, but Mule never let the truth get in the way of a chance to blame Obama for something.


StratDal - 5/8/2018 at 05:39 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.


Muleman1994 - 5/8/2018 at 06:33 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.



I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.


porkchopbob - 5/8/2018 at 06:47 PM

quote:
I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.


No, you post a bunch of nonsense some other idiot made up, and then we have to correct you with actual facts. And when proven wrong you move on to another thread and repeat.


pops42 - 5/8/2018 at 06:53 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.



I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.


Trailer Park Tommy, trump [and the republicants] love "dumb", "uninformed" clowns like YOU. too simple to separate "fact" from "fiction". and keep voting against your own economic self interests.


Muleman1994 - 5/8/2018 at 07:51 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.



I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.


Trailer Park Tommy, trump [and the republicants] love "dumb", "uninformed" clowns like YOU. too simple to separate "fact" from "fiction". and keep voting against your own economic self interests.



I voted for Donald Trump and my investments have soared ever since.

Now run out pops and collect some empty cans and sell 'em so you can buy another scratch-off ticket.





pops42 - 5/8/2018 at 08:06 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.



I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.


Trailer Park Tommy, trump [and the republicants] love "dumb", "uninformed" clowns like YOU. too simple to separate "fact" from "fiction". and keep voting against your own economic self interests.



I voted for Donald Trump and my investments have soared ever since.

Now run out pops and collect some empty cans and sell 'em so you can buy another scratch-off ticket.





Right, just like you are a marine corp war hero, and an ebola scientist, when in your sad reality: you clean the toilets at the salvation army.


StratDal - 5/8/2018 at 08:37 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Who remembers how Obama raided them and caused an unnecessary loss of significant capital in the millions of dollars? Over wood types used. Regulations China and other low cost places don't follow.

Tells you all you need to know about the difference in philosophies between Obama the Disaster and President Trump and there attitude towards American business.

This is why we pulled out of the Paris global warming deal and the TPP deal.


Two raids in 2009 and 2011.

Illegal wood worth $261,844 was forfeited by Gibson.

As a part of the 2012 settlement with the government, Gibson agreed to pay a $300,000 fine, along with making a $50,000 donation to the National Fish & Wildlife Fund.

The material impact to Gibson then totals $611,844.

In early 2018, Standard & Poor's downgrades Gibson's credit rating on the fact that Gibson is carrying $500 million in debt that comes due by the end of this summer.

Alrighty then.



You forgot to mention that Obama went after Gibson and let Martin slide on the wood issue.
Selective prosecution for a purely political agenda.




This is all I could find (using Google) regarding Martin and it was from 2007, a year before President Obama took office. The article doesn't state Martin did anything illegal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/06/business/worldbusiness/06iht-sbiz.4.6026 426.html

If you have more relevant information, please post. Thanks.





Your NYT link is old and a corrupt liberal media opinion piece.

Dismissed as b/s.




Well I did ask if you to post with more relevant information. Either it's not there or you don't understand internet search dynamics.



I do not do research for anyone too incompetent or lazy to source public factual information.

The factual date is out there. The fact that you cannot find it just shows us all what you are all about.




Well since you brought it up, I'm plenty! You'd make a pretty Trojan: all show and no go when confronted; just like the president.

How's the wall coming along by the way? You know, the one Mexico is going to pay for? Maybe the president can use all the wood that Gibson had to return to build it.


BrerRabbit - 5/8/2018 at 08:52 PM

Or get it from China, since he is already receiving their exotic wood. It will be a mahogany wall, a rosewood and ebony wall, it will be a beautiful wall, the best wall ever.


2112 - 5/8/2018 at 09:49 PM

quote:
I do not do research.


You should have stopped right there, although we already knew this.


Muleman1994 - 5/10/2018 at 04:53 PM

Obama used his militarized EPA to go after a political opponent and the lefties here just post about everything that has nothing to do with the thread.


porkchopbob - 5/10/2018 at 04:58 PM

quote:
Obama used his militarized EPA to go after a political opponent and the lefties here just post about everything that has nothing to do with the thread.



What is this, Ghostbusters? Everyone has refuted your made up nonsense with facts, and you've ignored it like a stubborn old fool. Go home.


Muleman1994 - 5/10/2018 at 05:54 PM

quote:
quote:
Obama used his militarized EPA to go after a political opponent and the lefties here just post about everything that has nothing to do with the thread.



What is this, Ghostbusters? Everyone has refuted your made up nonsense with facts, and you've ignored it like a stubborn old fool. Go home.



No one refuted anything with facts.

The facts were long ago posted here in the WP when the raid on Gibson happened and included pictures of Obama's militants ion military gear with weapons in hand.





porkchopbob - 5/10/2018 at 06:08 PM

quote:
No one refuted anything with facts.

The facts were long ago posted here in the WP when the raid on Gibson happened and included pictures of Obama's militants ion military gear with weapons in hand.


"Militants ion[sic] military gear"? I think you mean "Federal Marshalls" which are very much not "militants". Everyone disarmed your nonsense repeatedly. But I'll repeat for you: Gibson broke international smuggling law and were held accountable. That's how the law works.

Seriously, the time wasted explaining the world to you...

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]


BoytonBrother - 5/10/2018 at 07:10 PM

quote:
Obama's militants


Just another instance of Mule attacking American soldiers while praising foreign entities, like a true traitor to the U.S.


Muleman1994 - 5/10/2018 at 08:53 PM

quote:
quote:
No one refuted anything with facts.

The facts were long ago posted here in the WP when the raid on Gibson happened and included pictures of Obama's militants ion military gear with weapons in hand.


"Militants ion[sic] military gear"? I think you mean "Federal Marshalls" which are very much not "militants". Everyone disarmed your nonsense repeatedly. But I'll repeat for you: Gibson broke international smuggling law and were held accountable. That's how the law works.

Seriously, the time wasted explaining the world to you...

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]



Seriously you are the f'n idiot.

Obama militarized the EPA and sent them into Gibson's headquarters to harass his political opponents.



porkchopbob - 5/10/2018 at 09:03 PM

quote:
Seriously you are the f'n idiot.

Obama militarized the EPA and sent them into Gibson's headquarters to harass his political opponents.


They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]


Muleman1994 - 5/11/2018 at 01:18 AM

quote:
quote:
Seriously you are the f'n idiot.

Obama militarized the EPA and sent them into Gibson's headquarters to harass his political opponents.


They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]



Try again junior.
The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 03:07 AM

quote:
quote:
They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]


Try again junior.
The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Good Lord, dude, you have got to be a troll or dumb as a rock (or both. I'm thinking both). I wrote repeatedly, China is the biggest importer, i.e., smuggler, of illegal endangered woods from Africa and South America, and the international laws are put in place to stop them (I know you're a huge China fan, so this hurts to hear). Martin did not also smuggle pallets of illegal woods, Martin has carefully followed the new, admittedly tough, international preservation laws because they are also afraid of breaking them, as are many other instrument manufacturers. If you can't get the facts straight, at least try to understand what people here write. It will save you a lot of energy and egg on your face.


BrerRabbit - 5/11/2018 at 03:36 AM

quote:
you are the f'n idiot


quote:
I only fire when fired upon


Muleman1994 - 5/11/2018 at 04:24 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.

[Edited on 5/10/2018 by porkchopbob]


Try again junior.
The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Good Lord, dude, you have got to be a troll or dumb as a rock (or both. I'm thinking both). I wrote repeatedly, China is the biggest importer, i.e., smuggler, of illegal endangered woods from Africa and South America, and the international laws are put in place to stop them (I know you're a huge China fan, so this hurts to hear). Martin did not also smuggle pallets of illegal woods, Martin has carefully followed the new, admittedly tough, international preservation laws because they are also afraid of breaking them, as are many other instrument manufacturers. If you can't get the facts straight, at least try to understand what people here write. It will save you a lot of energy and egg on your face.



Nice dance junior but you are wrong again.

The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.


porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 04:46 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.




Try again junior.
The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Good Lord, dude, you have got to be a troll or dumb as a rock (or both. I'm thinking both). I wrote repeatedly, China is the biggest importer, i.e., smuggler, of illegal endangered woods from Africa and South America, and the international laws are put in place to stop them (I know you're a huge China fan, so this hurts to hear). Martin did not also smuggle pallets of illegal woods, Martin has carefully followed the new, admittedly tough, international preservation laws because they are also afraid of breaking them, as are many other instrument manufacturers. If you can't get the facts straight, at least try to understand what people here write. It will save you a lot of energy and egg on your face.


Nice dance junior but you are wrong again.

The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Holy. Hell. Do you not understand what words like "from" and "importer" mean? Am I in a really bad Abbott & Costello routine or are you really that thick? Here it is written out simple for you one last time:

ENDANGERED WOOD COMES FROM: South America and Africa.

MAJOR ILLEGAL IMPORTER (means wood comes INTO their country): China

A COMPANY THAT ALSO ILLEGALLY IMPORTED FROM S AMERICA & AFRICA: Gibson

A COMPANY THAT IS CAREFUL NOT TO IMPORT ILLEGAL WOOD: Martin

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/04/12/us-guitar-makers-h it-hard-new-international-logging-regulations-prized-rosewood/510119002/

quote:
"I'm so annoyed. I'm so distraught by this," said Chris Martin, chairman and CEO of C.F. Martin and Co., which uses rosewood in 200 models of acoustic guitar, some played by Eric Clapton, Ed Sheeran, Sting and other stars. The company's logistics staff estimates it spends 40 percent of its time dealing with the new regulations.

Fearful that Africa and Asia were losing rosewood forests, governments adopted the rules to stem the flow of smuggled rosewood to China's luxury furniture manufacturers. But the restrictions have also hurt companies that use relatively tiny amounts of the wood in guitars, clarinets and oboes.


Muleman1994 - 5/11/2018 at 04:58 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
They were FEDERAL MARSHALLS. Gibson SMUGGLED endangered wood and broke INTERNATIONAL LAW aimed at your favorite country, China. Every other US instrument maker is trying to be careful to not import illegal woods. Seriously buddy, you can have all the tantrums you want when people prove your insane, baseless assertions wrong, just please don't bother to type and post them.




Try again junior.
The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Good Lord, dude, you have got to be a troll or dumb as a rock (or both. I'm thinking both). I wrote repeatedly, China is the biggest importer, i.e., smuggler, of illegal endangered woods from Africa and South America, and the international laws are put in place to stop them (I know you're a huge China fan, so this hurts to hear). Martin did not also smuggle pallets of illegal woods, Martin has carefully followed the new, admittedly tough, international preservation laws because they are also afraid of breaking them, as are many other instrument manufacturers. If you can't get the facts straight, at least try to understand what people here write. It will save you a lot of energy and egg on your face.


Nice dance junior but you are wrong again.

The wood did not come from China and Martin Guitars did the same thing.



Holy. Hell. Do you not understand what words like "from" and "importer" mean? Am I in a really bad Abbott & Costello routine or are you really that thick? Here it is written out simple for you one last time:

ENDANGERED WOOD COMES FROM: South America and Africa.

MAJOR ILLEGAL IMPORTER (means wood comes INTO their country): China

A COMPANY THAT ALSO ILLEGALLY IMPORTED FROM S AMERICA & AFRICA: Gibson

A COMPANY THAT IS CAREFUL NOT TO IMPORT ILLEGAL WOOD: Martin

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2018/04/12/us-guitar-makers-h it-hard-new-international-logging-regulations-prized-rosewood/510119002/

quote:
"I'm so annoyed. I'm so distraught by this," said Chris Martin, chairman and CEO of C.F. Martin and Co., which uses rosewood in 200 models of acoustic guitar, some played by Eric Clapton, Ed Sheeran, Sting and other stars. The company's logistics staff estimates it spends 40 percent of its time dealing with the new regulations.

Fearful that Africa and Asia were losing rosewood forests, governments adopted the rules to stem the flow of smuggled rosewood to China's luxury furniture manufacturers. But the restrictions have also hurt companies that use relatively tiny amounts of the wood in guitars, clarinets and oboes.




Irrelevant crap.

Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.





porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 05:16 PM

quote:
Irrelevant crap.

Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


Ha, ok fine, facts and the law are irrelevant I guess. Enjoy your rhino horn soup!


BoytonBrother - 5/11/2018 at 05:16 PM

quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


I thought he was soft and wore mom jeans? Which is it?


porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 05:17 PM

quote:
quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


I thought he was soft and wore mom jeans? Which is it?


Clearly he's a Fender guy. But like, Chinese-made Fenders.


Muleman1994 - 5/11/2018 at 05:33 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


I thought he was soft and wore mom jeans? Which is it?


Clearly he's a Fender guy. But like, Chinese-made Fenders.




Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 05:47 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


I thought he was soft and wore mom jeans? Which is it?


Clearly he's a Fender guy. But like, Chinese-made Fenders.


Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.



Uh oh, Mulebot is skipping. Someone hit "reset".


Muleman1994 - 5/11/2018 at 06:20 PM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


I thought he was soft and wore mom jeans? Which is it?


Clearly he's a Fender guy. But like, Chinese-made Fenders.


Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.



Uh oh, Mulebot is skipping. Someone hit "reset".



Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.



porkchopbob - 5/11/2018 at 06:42 PM

quote:
Obama had Gibson raided by jack-booted and armed feds purely for political retribution.
Martin was not treated with such heavy-handed tactics.


The Feds failed to raid a lot of businesses that didn't illegally import rare, endangered Madagascar woods.

Go figure.


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