nebish - 4/11/2018 at 03:38 AM
The latest chemical weapon attack. Assad denies, Russia claims no evidence. UK and France lineup with the US for a "response". Is anyone certain if it was Assad, or one of the terror groups?
Syria/Iran/Russia vs US/Israel/NATO - great
Is it worth it?
If it was a Syrian military attack and use of banned (and previously believed eliminated) chemical weapons, what would an appropriate US response be that could be effective unlike last year's 59 cruise missile strike? Is it worth drawing Russia into a hot war where they might target our troops or assets in the region?
Assad is in Syria to stay. Like it or not. So no half-assed military strike is going to change that unless the US and allies commit to a full scale effort to remove him, which obviously would be a direct battle with Russian. Hopefully this won't happen, but with Bolton around now you can never be too sure. The mistakes in Iraq should have taught some lessons, but this time would be much different with another world power backing the regime making matters much more difficult and bloody with greater consequences and repercussions.
It isn't worth it.
The US could operate attacks against ISIS in Syria. But trying to actually reduce Assad's capabilities in reality would likely yield disappointing results - I mean what would they actually accomplish? Nothing has stopped him from killing his own people by conventional and horrific methods before, why do we think that we can change that by lobbing some missiles in again?
Where does it end?
2112 - 4/11/2018 at 04:22 AM
Who really knows? Last week Trump said we were leaving Syria. Now we might attack them.
Trump seems to really only have two world leaders friends, Putin and Netanyahu, so he's going to piss one of them off. If I had to guess, he's going to have some kind of half assed limited strike, just so he can say he did something. Russia will probably be warned ahead of time. Fox News will be praising him on his tough stand (as will Mule), but it will be nothing more than a dog and pony show. I don't see any significant or long term action, especially since he just said last week he wanted to leave (interesting timing wouldn't you say?)
nebish - 4/11/2018 at 11:59 AM
America apparently likes symbolism over effectiveness. Last time a lot of usual critics up and down praised the missile response and Trumpís decision to do it (Van Jones comes to mind).
It is deeply disturbing to see humans, children suffering under such weapons. But what can you do about it to change it? All the chemical weapons were supposedly removed. And can we be confident we are targeting the right people who did it?
The Middle East is more stable with strongmen dictators and the best thing iwe can do is limit their reach and influence with containment. It leads to some problematic issues, but is still better than what we have in Iraq or Libya.
I think leaving Syria wouldíve been the right move. There are limited troops and resources there and it isnít like our missions there was to see regime change or promote democracy. But seeing video of the aftermath of chemical weapons compels people to want and do something. As inconsistent Trump often is I can get the change of direction here. But with a pending response, how many other innocent people are killed? What other unintended consequences come from it? Whatever we do will it change a thing?
I like the shaming tweet towards Russia even though they arenít swayed by humanity. Atleast they are called out.
It just seems to me we are damned if we do and damned if we donít. Iíd gladly see some other nations n lead the world and bear the burdens that come with it. We get out of Syria and ISIS keeps fighting Assad and Russia keeps backing him then It is increasingly likely ISIS will target Russian interests.
Iím more concerned about Kurdish-Turkey fighting and wish we could do more there to broker peace between them.
As he previously said, it is time other countries in the region (Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan) manage their own part of the world.
LeafontheWind - 4/11/2018 at 01:03 PM
So far we're still in the "really mean tweets" stage of the Syria conflict.
Trump is in an awkward spot, he campaigned on less involvement in world affairs and now at the same time he has to avoid appearing weak (as he has accused his predecessor). I mean he JUST announced withdrawal from Syria, Assad said not so fast... yet another case of conservative ideology in conflict with reality.
I agree with 2112, most of Trump's efforts here will be manufacturing a political win without any real military involvement or leadership.
BrerRabbit - 4/11/2018 at 04:13 PM
LeglizHemp - 4/11/2018 at 08:56 PM
gina - 4/12/2018 at 08:36 PM
Yesterday Trump said we would strike Syria today with Tomahawk cruise missiles to try to stop the chemical weapons being used on the people. Well if you blow up a chemical weapons depot, what happens? All that stuff becomes airborne doesn't it?
Then Russia said if the US launched attacks, they would block our missiles, knock them down and then retaliate at the source of where the missiles were sent from (take down the planes, or boat where the missiles were fired from).
General Mattis wanted PROOF that chemical weapons were used, and the strikes were delayed. There are meetings this afternoon with the National Security Council and others about new developments.
The latest is they have urine samples which have not been entirely in US custody with the chain of command custody, but the samples are from bodies in Douma and they tested positive for Chlorine gas, so they were gassed. The Syrian govt. raised their flags over Douma and Eastern Ghouta today claiming that they now control the territory.
IF we fire missiles, and Russia shoots down our planes, then we are fighting Russia. Do we want to do that? Russia has said we should be shooting at terrorists not at regular civilian areas.
LONG TERM AS TO WHAT'S NEXT
Prophecy wise I can tell you the ultimate future of Syria is war, and the destruction of Damascus. That is in the Bible. It is part of Islamic prophecy too. Now who is the one who will blow up Damascus? Probably the U.S. What happens after that? May 14th, the US officially relocates the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem pissing off the Arab world. If the US and Russia are fighting each other over Syria, Iran will hit Israel over the developments in Jerusalem then it will be Iran, Russia against he US. Iran will also continue aiming weapons at Saudi Arabia from Yemen from the Houthi bases there. Ezekiel Chapter 37 and 38 tells you the nations that will be in the third world war. That is where the Syrian conflict will lead. When is anybody's guess.
As to what parts of the US will get hit when WWWIII breaks out, Russia will hit Chicago, DC, and someone (not sure if it will be Russia or N. Korea) will hit Los Angeles destroying that. Those are prophecies from a lady named Annie, and others have seen the same things. If DC is hit, we will have no more government in tact, time to roll out martial law to save what is left of the country, and then try to create a ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT to stop this horrible world war.
The United Nations will rise to the occasion, Obama will be put in charge and there will be a leader, European (Prince William more likely than not) who will be able to create peace between Israel and the entire Arab world who will be fighting against it. WHOEVER is able to create peace during that war at the 3 and one half year mark will be your anti-Christ.
That is the future. And Yes, Muslims will attack Rome and the Vatican will be no more when they are done with that. There is also Islamic prophecy about the nuclear war and the red wind and sores in the armpits of the fighters. The other prophecies about people's eyes melting in their sockets would be from nuclear blasts.
The Iranians want US troops out of Idlib.
US officials and Turkey are discussing some things of mutual interest.
As to the reaction to the confirmation that chlorine gas was used, we shall see.
"The Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW) confirms that the OPCW Fact-Finding Mission (FFM) team is on its way to Syria and will start its work as of Saturday 14 April, 2018," the watchdog said in a statement on Thursday. Later on Thursday, French President Emmanuel Macron said his country had proof that the Syrian government launched the gas attacks. Earlier in the day, Bashar al-Jaafari, Syrian ambassador to the US, said in New York that two investigating teams from the OPCW were scheduled to arrive in Syria within the next 24 hours.
Hezbollah has issued warning.
TEHRAN (FNA)- Secretary-general of Iraq's al-Nujaba popular movement Sheikh Akram condemned US President Donald Trump for his recent threats against Syria, warning that Washington will be defeated in Syria like the US-backed terrorists. "We are witnessing that Trump is attempting to make up for his failures and support terrorism directly after terrorism was defeated in Iraq and Syria and the US measures to maintain the ISIL in Syria near Albu Kamal and in Iraq in Wadi al-Houran were disclosed," al-Kaabi said on Thursday.
He stressed that Trump's foreign policy is based on promotion of terrorism, massacre of nations and plundering the countries, saying, "We are waiting for you in Syria and we will gain victory in fighting against you as we did against the terrorists supported by you, including the ISIL, al-Nusra Front (also known as Fatah al-Sham Front or the Levant Liberation Board) and other Takfiri groups."
AND Moscow says if the US launches strikes in Syria it violates the UN Charter.
REMARKS: The US needs a diplomat, send Jimmy Carter. The US and Russia both agree that gas attacks are not acceptable. Russia recently pointed out that the US promised to destroy its own chemical weapons stockpile, and they doubt that we have done this. Recognize that any strike on Syria has to be done with Russian knowledge, and consent such as what was done in 2017. Hezbollah says we should be focusing on Isil, not Assad. They think we keep these wars going by not dealing with certain groups like Isis. Assad has been gassing people since the 1980's.
We need diplomacy, we need proof of the weapons, we need to know where the weapons came from, proof, Iraq had US military grade chemical weapons. That came out in the newsmedia, there were even pictures of the canisters. What did we do? Well we put Saddam in power, so we took him out, swept it under the rug and moved on. If Assad has US military grade chemical weapons, somebody has to be held accountable for that because it does violate more than the Geneva Conventions. The best approach is a multi-lateral consensus that tells Assad he cannot use chemical weapons on his people. He will deny that he did it. Let the intel and military find out where the stockpiles are, breach it, get proof, and then let the chips fall where they may. Take action after all the facts are in. FACTS, not FAKE NEWS facts.
[Edited on 4/12/2018 by gina]
gina - 4/12/2018 at 09:42 PM
UK and France Preparations for Joint Response with US on Syria, Germany will NOT join in any attacks launched.
The Daily Telegraph reported Wednesday that UK Prime Minister Theresa May has ordered British submarines to move within missile range of Syria in readiness for strikes against Damascus government that could begin as early as Thursday night. Cruise missiles have now been positioned within striking range of the country as speculation over a US-led response continued to mount, according to reports.
The British Prime Minister has also summoned her cabinet to brief ministers on Thursday on a "fast-moving week" amid the ratcheting up of tensions over Syria, according to The Independent.
Sky News reported that May is expected to ask the ministers to greenlight the UK's participation in an attack spearheaded by France and the US, without consulting the Parliament. Should the approval be granted, the operation could be launched "within hours". Sources told The Times newspaper that UKís Royal Air Force jets on Cyprus are ready to swoop into action if the cabinet authorizes airstrikes on Syria.
COMMENT: Social media is not happy with Theresa May. With the twitter page: NotInMyNameTheresaMay.
Quite disconcerting is the UK would wage a strike without consent of Parliament, like the US doing such things without asking Congress. We started a bad precedent back in the Bush days.
German will NOT be joining any attacks launched on Syria. Even though they are an allied nation.
The Iranian Foreign Ministry has also spoken.
P.S. THE United Nations wants a meeting.
UN Security Council Resolution Vote Results
LIVE COVERAGE FOR SYRIA
[Edited on 4/12/2018 by gina]
gina - 4/12/2018 at 11:11 PM
TARGETS -map with identifications
Russian Air Force HQ
Russian Naval Base HQ
Iranian Air Force HQ
Iranian Military HQ
Remarks: This doesn't look good. I am not trying to dominate this thread, I just realize the seriousness of the situation at hand and wanted to provide info I came across.
[Edited on 4/13/2018 by gina]
gina - 4/14/2018 at 12:01 AM
Chlorine gas packages made in Germany used by Jaish al islam in Damascus.
"#SyrianArmy found at the terrorist headquarters in East Ghouta ďChlorine Gas packagesĒ made in Germany, and used by US-Saudi-backed Jaish Al Islam in #Damascus country side in order to poison the innocent people and accuse the Syrian government "