Thread: The Dickey Betts Band Premiere New "Ramblin' Man" Live Video

porkchopbob - 7/2/2019 at 07:25 PM

Well, the band is tight and Dickey shows a few flashes of his old self towards the end. But I don't think this will be added to the Library of Congress.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/the-dickey-betts-band-premiere-new-ramblin -man-live-video


Jonesy - 7/2/2019 at 07:35 PM

I have no idea what the logic behind this release was. Dickey wanted it? if so, why? was it to be his last gift to his fans? I really don't get it


porkchopbob - 7/2/2019 at 07:37 PM

quote:
I have no idea what the logic behind this release was. Dickey wanted it? if so, why? was it to be his last gift to his fans? I really don't get it

If I had to guess, maybe some money and exposure for his band mates.


blackey - 7/2/2019 at 08:54 PM

No Dickey said he left retirement after Gregg died because people came to him offering the best money to play he had received in a good while. Then he was approached with good money to do this release.

Now he may had some of his Great Southern mates in mind who hadn't had a good paying gig as far as I know since Dickey retired in 2014. Dickey of course had a light stroke then fell hitting his head requiring brain surgery. So Dickey is retired again. And it may stay that way. Dickey said recently when asked about the Allman Betts Band that he may stay retired this time because he believes he just doesn't put on as good a show as he did some years ago.

That was odd to say just ahead of this release. But Dickey is right. He doesn't and wasn't when he retired in 2014 IMO.


islalala - 7/2/2019 at 10:28 PM

I had to shut it off... sorry, Dickey. Just couldn't bear any more.


74Jer - 7/2/2019 at 11:36 PM

This is not how Dickey needs to be remembered. How about releasing something from the archive, such as the American Music Show from Winterland on 12/14/74. Dickey (or Richard) was in top form then!


Buzzy82 - 7/2/2019 at 11:54 PM

That was hard to listen to for many reasons


jszfunk - 7/3/2019 at 12:36 AM

Uh..wow....Not sure what to say....


redhouse1969 - 7/3/2019 at 02:31 PM

quote:
Turn it off,don't watch it.He wanted to and did it,end of story.None of us have a dog in the race.Been wanting to see Betts and talk a spell for quite some time since his stroke's and surgery.So when in Sarasota last week i went by,and glad i did.We sat and jawwed for maybe an hour.Told me how since the strokes,and how they happened/where etc,how his right arm and hand tingle a lot.Kinda like the feelin when ya wake up after you've been sleepin on your side/arm.He's still sharp as a tack mentally though!Was a very good visit.And i thank my FATHER in heaven i had the chance to do so.

[Edited on 7/3/2019 by LUKE]


Darn right Luke....


BIGV - 7/3/2019 at 03:18 PM

Tough to watch and like a lot of people here, I have to wonder why this was released....


bird72 - 7/3/2019 at 03:45 PM

I was at the Beacon show. I won't watch this release. It was good to give tribute to Dickey in person, is the best I can muster as a positive. What made me upset a little at the time wasn't that Dickey came out to play obviously badly unrehearsed and unfocused. What made me upset is that probably he was talked into, prodded, motivated by money offer, told he was great by shysters, stroked by people with personal agendas, etc etc. And he is a person who appears to have alcohol issues. So scheduling a Dickey show at the illustrious Beacon without hearing a rehearsed focused Dickey is just out of this world money grab stuff. There are such users of people out there. I was shocked his son was a part of it in retrospect, a buy in of sorts.

So THIS release is probably rights he signed off to on when shows were scheduled. Done by sharks out to milk the last couple hundred bucks they can. Weird. Sorry on blunt. It is nonsense and can't believe Dickey really wants this.


porkchopbob - 7/3/2019 at 05:02 PM

quote:
What made me upset is that probably he was talked into, prodded, motivated by money offer, told he was great by shysters, stroked by people with personal agendas, etc etc.

This is a lot of conjecture. Do you really know who Dickey surrounds himself with? I'd be careful of making presumptions about his son, Duane appears very protective of his father.

I think everyone is taking this a little too seriously. Dickey felt like getting back on stage, back on the road. His return to Macon with Jaimoe, the Beacon, and appearance at The Peach were all nice moments even if they weren't musically tight. Fans had been asking for it since he retired in 2014. The shows weren't legendary, but fans got one more ride. Doesn't change anything, no one remembers Joe Namath getting tossed around in a Rams jersey. I'm surprised they went to the trouble of releasing an album from this run, but if it's a pay day for Mike Kach, Pedro, et al, it can't be all bad.


Fretsman - 7/3/2019 at 05:19 PM

Here is the case of an aged musical hero on his final ride into the sunset. His voice is weaker, his playing a little sloppy, but I enjoyed it. It isn't Mr. Betts in his hey day, but it IS Mr. Betts "doing the best he can" and I'm totally fine with that.

In today's world this isn't a big money maker, It's just a piece of a man who gave a lifetime to his music and to his fans.

There are people who I've loved and admired my whole life who I've shared a parallel universe with sharing rooms and fields sporadically. I wish I could see Tom Seaver pitch another inning or two while I gave him a standing ovation walking off even if he gave up a ton of runs while doing it. To see the man on the mound and share a moment is what I'd focus on. This was Dickey on that mound, I was there at the St. George and know what I saw, what moment in time it is for both of us, and I loved it. I will be getting this the day it's out. For those who don't appreciate it, don't get it. As far as myself I can see the Forrest through the trees.

God Bless Forrest Richard Betts.


BrerRabbit - 7/3/2019 at 05:27 PM

quote:
As far as myself I can see the Forrest through the trees.

God Bless Forrest Richard Betts.





Skydog32103 - 7/3/2019 at 07:07 PM

iím just glad to have anything new by the king Dickey Betts.


porkchopbob - 7/3/2019 at 07:11 PM

quote:
In today's world this isn't a big money maker, It's just a piece of a man who gave a lifetime to his music and to his fans.


Exactly, it's not like (live) albums are as expensive to produce or as lucrative as they once were. It's there for anyone who wants it and shouldn't bother those who don't.


JMidnightrider - 7/3/2019 at 10:48 PM

I'm just thrilled that Dickey is better and still doing what he loves. I've been following Brothers since 69 Ö.I ain't perfect all the time either....lol


blackey - 7/4/2019 at 12:54 AM

It does have to do with money to a degree. Dickey DID say when he was getting calls to respond to Gregg Allman's death, he soon began offered through his manager to come out of retirement and play some shows as one of two surviving originial Allman Brothers members for the best money he had been offered in the several last years of Great Southern.

Dickey is a multimillionaire 40 times over. It is a fact that Dickey made more money than any of the members of the band. Last stats I saw when Gregg died was Dickey 40 million, Gregg 20 million, Warren 15 million, Jaimoe 2 million and Butch 0. So Dickey doesn't need to money. Apparently it was maybe his ego? Getting a good paying tour for the Great Southern band? To pay tribute to Gregg because Dickey wanted to play some Gregg songs?

Whatever the reason, Dickey wasn't ready for this tour and I doubt he can ever play again at the level we want to see.. Probably a combination of his age, past hard living life style and current medical experience. Dickey's timing and focus, singing, guitar playing and energy is off and not up to the playing standard one would expect from a major artist who played such a critical part of the sound and success of a famous band. I didn't enjoy seeing the last show I saw from B B King. He had to sit and his singing, playing and energy were diminished too. It was a trill to see such an icon playing past 80 but it was also sad.

I don't want to play a live DVD of B B King in his last years. I have a video of Dickey playing Ramblin' Man with the ABB in 1999 in Las Vegas when Derek first joined the band which is absolutely excellent. I'll watch that not this. Also if you want to hear an excellent version of Ramblin' Man live..play the version on Wipe the Windows, Dollar Gas. It's on YouTube. Not only does Dickey absolutely knock it out of the park singing and playing with a LONG solo at the end, Gregg, Chuck, Lamar, Jaimoe and Butch are flat smoking. This version is 5 stars plus. This album also has an incredible live version of Southbound. I would put the 1973 Chuck/Lamar version up against any ABB lineup except the 1970-71 originial band and win.


bird72 - 7/4/2019 at 01:12 PM

TY Blackey, I do know the quote you refer to about Dickey explaining taking the gig(s) for $$$ offer. Porchopbob probably didn't read that. Conjecture my tail. Luke the defender also applies. Taking away the brotherhood aspect, it was a hollow rip off attempt. Dickey DID NOT convey love for the crowd or the history. He was indifferent at best. The music was atrocious.

I could tell a story but I will only partially. Shared a Beacon elevator after the show with an ex ABB affiliate. They were backstage at the show. They were so, so upset they couldn't contain. And it was due to what I won't elaborate on, as I do not know validity personally.

Luke, Betts "one last ride" was great, but charging high NYC Beacon prices for Orchestra for an unrehearsed mishmash of garble? Ain't my brotherhood. I love Dickey, but this mess was a grand mistake. And who will pull this gem out of their library to watch?

Porkchop, your comments are insulting. Taking too seriously? A couple grand into a NYC trip is worth an honest take on it. I effin earned that my friend. Brotherhood is good and bad. If it is just "stroking", heck with that stuff.




porkchopbob - 7/4/2019 at 02:02 PM

quote:
Porkchop, your comments are insulting. Taking too seriously? A couple grand into a NYC trip is worth an honest take on it.


I know some people who really enjoyed some of the shows for what it was, clams and all. We're talking about a live album, not your expense report for you NYC trip. Next time get tickets to the St George instead of the Beacon, it's cheaper. So yeah, unless you or blackey have some legit information and not just elevator gossip or reading between the lines from the same interviews we've all read, don't take it so seriously and personally. Even Dickey agreed it wasn't the show he used to put on and he won't likely return to the road, so don't buy the album.


blackey - 7/4/2019 at 03:40 PM

I'm really digging the new Allman Betts Band album and the show I saw recently was really good. That band is playing really well and clearly have gelled and are having fun.

I may buy this DVD to support Dickey but I actually doubt Dickey was unrehearsed for last years tour and the Beacon. It was just simply the best Dickey could do. The last show over on Staton Island was the best of the tour for Dickey. Dickey was bringing it a little at that show. I'm sure Dickey and the band were disappointed and surprised Dickey just couldn't get it together. The shows were booked so they had to do them. Apparently Dickey's manager and the people ready to pay big money to book these shows thought Dickey could still leave a trail of smoke on the stage. Apparently Dickey even thought he could do better. He said in a mid tour interview he was like Tiger Woods after several years of no golf. He said he was just trying to get his singing and playing together where he could score par. Apparently the people who dangled good money to get Dickey out of retirement because Gregg died thought Dickey could still play like he was golfing in the Masters not trying just to make par.

I'll buy this to support Dickey Betts who's guitar playing and style and originial songs are so part of my life's experience and happy times. Becoming a fan in early 1970 of the Allman Brothers was the biggest thing that happened to me musically and all these years later Dickey Betts is still a huge part of what happened to me musically and here in 2019 I still play the ABB with Dickey in the lineup more than any other music.

Dickey had slipped some the last few years Great Southern was together. I think Dickey thought he could eventually bounce back close to Allman Brothers playing but he just couldn't do it. Age, hard living life style and perhaps medical things have caught up with him. Dickey's legacy is secure. Dickey Betts is huge to the ABB legacy. When you think about Jessica, Blue Sky, Liz Reed etc, Dickey may have been the band's best song writer. Certainly as good as Gregg and better than Warren to me. And his guitar playing on many of their albums is unique and Dickey has his own style and he played things on ABB albums that were pure magic and so uplifting. Dickey was as good as Duane, Warren and Derek just different. Listen to Dickey's solo on One Way Out on Eat A Peach. The tone, energy and attack. Nobody who has ever been in the ABB plays like that. Jimmy Herring said it's one of his all time favorite electric guitar solos. That its killer.


BrerRabbit - 7/4/2019 at 05:18 PM

quote:
Dickey Betts is huge to the ABB legacy. When you think about Jessica, Blue Sky, Liz Reed etc, Dickey may have been the band's best song writer


Dickey was the backbone of the ABB. If he had vanished from the band early on the story would have ended right there.


thetoweringfool - 7/4/2019 at 07:26 PM

quote:
quote:
Dickey Betts is huge to the ABB legacy. When you think about Jessica, Blue Sky, Liz Reed etc, Dickey may have been the band's best song writer


Dickey was the backbone of the ABB. If he had vanished from the band early on the story would have ended right there.
Well Said brer rabbit....


matt05 - 7/5/2019 at 03:14 AM

quote:
quote:
Dickey Betts is huge to the ABB legacy. When you think about Jessica, Blue Sky, Liz Reed etc, Dickey may have been the band's best song writer


Dickey was the backbone of the ABB. If he had vanished from the band early on the story would have ended right there.




i had the math posted on here at some point but if i remember after duane died until betts was no longer in the band in 2000 he wrote/co-wrote almost 80% of the songs


masbama - 7/5/2019 at 03:27 AM

ď don't want to play a live DVD of B B King in his last years. I have a video of Dickey playing Ramblin' Man with the ABB in 1999 in Las Vegas when Derek first joined the band which is absolutely excellent. I'll watch that not this. Also if you want to hear an excellent version of Ramblin' Man live..play the version on Wipe the Windows, Dollar Gas. It's on YouTube. Not only does Dickey absolutely knock it out of the park singing and playing with a LONG solo at the end, Gregg, Chuck, Lamar, Jaimoe and Butch are flat smoking. This version is 5 stars plus. This album also has an incredible live version of Southbound. I would put the 1973 Chuck/Lamar version up against any ABB lineup except the 1970-71 originial band.Ē

Iím with you. Dickeyís solo takes it to where heís never been. Arguably the most important Brother.


griff - 7/5/2019 at 04:07 AM

We love Dickey.
Happy 5th!!
Griff!


chris - 7/5/2019 at 03:30 PM

I've been a Dickey fan since I fell in love the ABB back in the early 90s. I was very vocal back in 2000 about how upset I was about the split... that said, I saw Dickey back in 2006/7 in Charlotte and about 30 seconds into the encore (Ramblin' Man) Dickey stopped and made the band start over.

It was beyond strange and I knew then that the magic was gone.

I hate seeing my music heroes go on stage way past their prime. I read the stories of B.B. King dealing with dementia on stage. Not a way to be remembered. As much as I love the Dead, I won't spend $100/ticket to see them play at such a slower beat. Go on YouTube and see for yourself. You'll have to speed up the video to 1.25 for the tunes to sound like you're not trying to go to sleep.

---

I thought Dickey might be in financial trouble, but if he really has $40M+, why in the hell would he want to do that? Unless this is all he knows and at that age, it's more of a routine/comfort thing.


blackey - 7/5/2019 at 07:49 PM

Hi Chris. Yes Dickey is worth 40 million. Somehow Dickey made more money off the ABB than any TWO other members you could mention combined including Gregg.

I think the promoters and his manager saying the people want you back out there and go play some shows for Gregg and the money offered all made him feel good and he said he was bored and thought his career was over. When he quit in 2014 Dickey wasn't getting much action on the road anymore. But you are right about his playing. His age caught up with him sooner than B. B. King because of alcohol. But Gregg also was slipping and of course he was sick. Butch Trucks intimated in 2015 Gregg was still having drug problems but later indicated it was prescription drug abuse and pot. Butch also said Dickey was an alcoholic and drug addict and Gregg talking about missing Dickey and wanting to play with Dickey again wouldn't amount to anything at this stage in time.

One of the things that really burned Butch was a 1991 greatest hits CD that sold over 2 million copies. The ABB got nothing because it was all Capricorn songs. But Butch said Dickey and Gregg made millions because of all the writing credits they had on the damn thing and Butch said he got NOTHING. He complained he wrote the drum part of Liz Reed and Berry Oakley the bass intro for Whipping Post and everybody in the band actually wrote those songs because in the beginning all Dickey and Gregg had was some cords, melody line and some words but it needed to be shaped and completed.

Butch was posting regularly here then and someone posted "Did you talk to Duane about it" and Butch said he did but Duane said whoever came up with the originial idea was the song writer. Butch said he didn't want to rock the boat so he said no more while Duane was alive but he (Butch) contributed ideas for several songs and got nothing. Butch said Whipping post was a slow ballad when Gregg showed it to the band and he and Berry Oakey reworked that song to the point it wasn't what Gregg came up with. Now Gregg has said he didn't really like how they changed up his song.


matt05 - 7/5/2019 at 08:48 PM

quote:
Hi Chris. Yes Dickey is worth 40 million. Somehow Dickey made more money off the ABB than any TWO other members you could mention combined including Gregg.

I think the promoters and his manager saying the people want you back out there and go play some shows for Gregg and the money offered all made him feel good and he said he was bored and thought his career was over. When he quit in 2014 Dickey wasn't getting much action on the road anymore. But you are right about his playing. His age caught up with him sooner than B. B. King because of alcohol. But Gregg also was slipping and of course he was sick. Butch Trucks intimated in 2015 Gregg was still having drug problems but later indicated it was prescription drug abuse and pot. Butch also said Dickey was an alcoholic and drug addict and Gregg talking about missing Dickey and wanting to play with Dickey again wouldn't amount to anything at this stage in time.

One of the things that really burned Butch was a 1991 greatest hits CD that sold over 2 million copies. The ABB got nothing because it was all Capricorn songs. But Butch said Dickey and Gregg made millions because of all the writing credits they had on the damn thing and Butch said he got NOTHING. He complained he wrote the drum part of Liz Reed and Berry Oakley the bass intro for Whipping Post and everybody in the band actually wrote those songs because in the beginning all Dickey and Gregg had was some cords, melody line and some words but it needed to be shaped and completed.

Butch was posting regularly here then and someone posted "Did you talk to Duane about it" and Butch said he did but Duane said whoever came up with the originial idea was the song writer. Butch said he didn't want to rock the boat so he said no more while Duane was alive but he (Butch) contributed ideas for several songs and got nothing. Butch said Whipping post was a slow ballad when Gregg showed it to the band and he and Berry Oakey reworked that song to the point it wasn't what Gregg came up with. Now Gregg has said he didn't really like how they changed up his song.



"somehow" dickey made more? certainly writing 75% of the bands hits and radio staples would be the reason why. ramblin man, seven turns, jessica, revival, blue sky, crazy love. gregg has whipping post, dreams and midnight rider and what else?


Fretsman - 7/5/2019 at 09:08 PM

That is a fact, Dickey could pen a tune and I doubt he'd allow it tweaked beyond what he wrote.
I'm not sure of the exact timeline of retirement, but he was touring in late 2014, Here's a clip from NYC in August.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viTaFL86iio

Dickey's brother Joel was in bad shape and virtually on his deathbed. Dickey wasn't happy with his care so he brought him into his home, paid 8K weekly for his care, and made Joel's last days of his life as peaceful and comfortable as could be. Joel passed in March of 2015. In August of 2015 when I went down for the White Buffalo benefit for Mike Kach of Great Southern Dickey was still in mourning. Dickey deserves to ride out well.


BrerRabbit - 7/5/2019 at 09:14 PM

quote:
gregg has whipping post, dreams and midnight rider and what else?


Every nontraditional or old blues song not written by Dickey. Gregg was the main songwriter for the for the first 3 records. Gregg was the ONLY ABB songwriter on the first record, Dickey kicked in Revival and IMOER on Idlewild South. Blue Sky and Les Brers on EAP


Every Hungry Woman
Black Hearted Woman
Don't Keep Me Wonderin
Leave My Blues At Home
Ain't Wastin Time No More
Standback
Melissa

[Edited on 7/5/2019 by BrerRabbit]


matt05 - 7/5/2019 at 09:29 PM

quote:
quote:
gregg has whipping post, dreams and midnight rider and what else?


Every nontraditional or old blues song not written by Dickey. Gregg was the main songwriter for the for the first 3 records. Gregg was the ONLY ABB songwriter on the first record, Dickey kicked in Revival and IMOER on Idlewild South. Blue Sky and Les Brers on EAP


Every Hungry Woman
Black Hearted Woman
Don't Keep Me Wonderin
Leave My Blues At Home
Ain't Wastin Time No More
Standback
Melissa

[Edited on 7/5/2019 by BrerRabbit]



the what else was talking about hits or radio staples. other than "melissa" i have never heard a single one of those tunes on the radio. thats why betts is worth more than greg and the rest of the band


blackey - 7/6/2019 at 02:54 AM

Dickey is taking good care of Duane Betts too. Duane had a real nice crib out in Malibu, California years ago. Duane flies to nice vacation spots several times a year. Duane has three of Dickey's best guitars as his main axes. A 2001 aged Dickey Betts custom shop Gibson Les Paul, 1956 Fender Stratocaster hardtail and a big dot neck 1961 Gibson ES-335.

Now if you want to compare Dickey's 40 million to some other guitar players....Keith Richards 340 million. Eric Clapton 250 million. David Gilmore 200 million.

Gregg was worth 20 million and owned 42 guitars. Devon Allman said Gregg gave him all of them.


WaitinForRain - 7/7/2019 at 01:10 AM

Writing the song = bringing the song, lyrics and melody
Arrangement = tempo and timing

If I rearranged midnight rider to include a distinctive drum intro,
I didn't write the song, I ARRANGED it.

Ta da!

The Dicky DVD is pretty hard to watch. He's done.

I've seen plenty of artists past their prime. Some bring it,
some don't.

Gregg's last output was particularly listenable, live and studio.


pops42 - 7/7/2019 at 01:57 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
gregg has whipping post, dreams and midnight rider and what else?


Every nontraditional or old blues song not written by Dickey. Gregg was the main songwriter for the for the first 3 records. Gregg was the ONLY ABB songwriter on the first record, Dickey kicked in Revival and IMOER on Idlewild South. Blue Sky and Les Brers on EAP


Every Hungry Woman
Black Hearted Woman
Don't Keep Me Wonderin
Leave My Blues At Home
Ain't Wastin Time No More
Standback
Melissa

[Edited on 7/5/2019 by BrerRabbit]



the what else was talking about hits or radio staples. other than "melissa" i have never heard a single one of those tunes on the radio. thats why betts is worth more than greg and the rest of the band
I heard those songs constantly on FM radio all through the 70s and into the 80s it drew me and a million other people to the band, and made them who they are, along with Dickeys tunes and picking.


matt05 - 7/7/2019 at 04:08 AM

quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
gregg has whipping post, dreams and midnight rider and what else?


Every nontraditional or old blues song not written by Dickey. Gregg was the main songwriter for the for the first 3 records. Gregg was the ONLY ABB songwriter on the first record, Dickey kicked in Revival and IMOER on Idlewild South. Blue Sky and Les Brers on EAP


Every Hungry Woman
Black Hearted Woman
Don't Keep Me Wonderin
Leave My Blues At Home
Ain't Wastin Time No More
Standback
Melissa

[Edited on 7/5/2019 by BrerRabbit]



the what else was talking about hits or radio staples. other than "melissa" i have never heard a single one of those tunes on the radio. thats why betts is worth more than greg and the rest of the band
I heard those songs constantly on FM radio all through the 70s and into the 80s it drew me and a million other people to the band, and made them who they are, along with Dickeys tunes and picking.




thats awesome you heard some album cuts 40 years ago. how much money do you think that generated for gregg? since "classic rock" stations became a thing about 30 years ago i have never once hear any song that was listed played on classic rock FM stations except "melissa" and that was my point. betts is the writer for the 2 most played ABB on classic rock radio and wrote another 2 that get played alot . plus he wrote most of the singles starting with the album brothers and sisters even if they were played for a few months on radio the year they were released and then never heard from again.


pops42 - 7/7/2019 at 08:43 AM

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-finance/fame -and-fortune-dickey-betts.aspx/amp/ Dickey made 3/4 of his money on the road (when he was with the brothers) merchandising being a big part of it. Post ABB it was 1/2 performance 1/2 royalties. Dickey also had a great investment team. Don't say Gregg's tunes weren't played and he didn't earn much money from them, it's just not the case.

[Edited on 7/7/2019 by pops42]


matt05 - 7/7/2019 at 12:06 PM

quote:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bankrate.com/finance/personal-financ e/fame-and-fortune-dickey-betts.aspx/amp/ Dickey made 3/4 of his money on the road (when he was with the brothers) merchandising being a big part of it. Post ABB it was 1/2 performance 1/2 royalties. Dickey also had a great investment team. Don't say Gregg's tunes weren't played and he didn't earn much money from them, it's just not the case.

[Edited on 7/7/2019 by pops42]


i am going to say that. I even just called my local classic rock station in Richmond va 96.5. the playlist of songs related to the ABB the are allowed to play in order of most played
1 rambling man
2 Jessica
3 midnight rider (the solo Gregg version)
4 whipping post
5 blue sky
6 Melissa


there you go. they said thats it unless its a special segment where they play multiple songs in a row by classic artists. if its like that all over most cities dickey wrote the top 2 . each guy wrote 3 songs of the top 6. I can look at the rest of the singles released by the band starting with brothers and sisters and see dickey as a writer or co-writer on most of them. even some singles from the 1989-2000 timeframe that Gregg sings dickey wrote


blackey - 7/7/2019 at 03:03 PM

When Butch called Gregg in 2000 to say he found out from his wife Gregg was quiting the band, Butch said let's vote him out rather than folding the band because we can't legitimately call this the Allman Brothers with no Allman. Butch also said he was quiting too but lets vote out Dickey and keep going. Gregg said the contract probably won't allow it. Butch said there isn't a contract. It's just a gentleman's agreement. When Jaimoe was sacked in 1980 it was Dickey talking us into voting him out. There was no contract.

The contracts those boys signed was for Allman Brothers Inc. The originial four owned the band and additional musicians had contracts. When Warren and Woody quit in 1997, the band was going to invite them to be owners and be on par with the original four.

It's my understanding Dickey continued to be an owner of the band so apparently received his cut even though he was voted off the stage.

Remember in the 2000's when the band sued iTunes? I saw the suite reported on the net and it listed Gregg, Butch, Jaimoe and DICKEY as the owners and this was several years after Dickey was voted out.

When Butch and Gregg discussed voting Dickey out permanently they had to get Jaimoe involved but when they called him, Jaimoe said no. The only way an originial can leave is die or quit. So they agreed to lay Dickey off for the summer. In the meantime Dickey sued the band and after arbitration was finalized and Dickey left with no discussion of continuing as a player, Butch said "now what". Jaimoe said Dickey must have quit. Gregg agreed and Gregg said he would continue the band only if Warren Haynes came back.

Gregg discusses this in his book. Yes he was going to quit in 2000 but Butch talked him into staying and getting rid of Dickey. But Jaimoe wouldn't go along with it, just a temporary suspension. After arbitration Gregg says in his book that Dickey actually ended up quiting. They did not fire him. Personally I think it was a little of both.

Warren said they should have followed bands like the Rolling Stones and not played every year. Take two, three years off between tours and none of this would have happened. But Warren said they had acquired a number of people who were counting on the band for their living so they had to play every year and like the Stones, they would get along better if they played no more than every other year at the most.


Psy - 7/7/2019 at 03:21 PM

quote:
Well, the band is tight and Dickey shows a few flashes of his old self towards the end. But I don't think this will be added to the Library of Congress.

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/the-dickey-betts-band-premiere-new-ramblin -man-live-video


I'll be generous and give that a 2 out of 5 stars.


matt05 - 7/7/2019 at 03:58 PM

quote:
When Butch called Gregg in 2000 to say he found out from his wife Gregg was quiting the band, Butch said let's vote him out rather than folding the band because we can't legitimately call this the Allman Brothers with no Allman. Butch also said he was quiting too but lets vote out Dickey and keep going. Gregg said the contract probably won't allow it. Butch said there isn't a contract. It's just a gentleman's agreement. When Jaimoe was sacked in 1980 it was Dickey talking us into voting him out. There was no contract.

The contracts those boys signed was for Allman Brothers Inc. The originial four owned the band and additional musicians had contracts. When Warren and Woody quit in 1997, the band was going to invite them to be owners and be on par with the original four.

It's my understanding Dickey continued to be an owner of the band so apparently received his cut even though he was voted off the stage.

Remember in the 2000's when the band sued iTunes? I saw the suite reported on the net and it listed Gregg, Butch, Jaimoe and DICKEY as the owners and this was several years after Dickey was voted out.

When Butch and Gregg discussed voting Dickey out permanently they had to get Jaimoe involved but when they called him, Jaimoe said no. The only way an originial can leave is die or quit. So they agreed to lay Dickey off for the summer. In the meantime Dickey sued the band and after arbitration was finalized and Dickey left with no discussion of continuing as a player, Butch said "now what". Jaimoe said Dickey must have quit. Gregg agreed and Gregg said he would continue the band only if Warren Haynes came back.

Gregg discusses this in his book. Yes he was going to quit in 2000 but Butch talked him into staying and getting rid of Dickey. But Jaimoe wouldn't go along with it, just a temporary suspension. After arbitration Gregg says in his book that Dickey actually ended up quiting. They did not fire him. Personally I think it was a little of both.

Warren said they should have followed bands like the Rolling Stones and not played every year. Take two, three years off between tours and none of this would have happened. But Warren said they had acquired a number of people who were counting on the band for their living so they had to play every year and like the Stones, they would get along better if they played no more than every other year at the most.



the stones did tour every year until 1980. they played a few shows in 1977 and 1979 and then no tour in 1980 or 1983-1988. it wasn't until after the 1989-1990 tour that they started taking some years off. still though they toured 1994-1995, 1997-1999, 2002-2003, 2005-2007. since 2012 they have played usually at least 10 shows a year.


gina - 7/7/2019 at 08:07 PM

You folks are really something. His playing is not bad. To me, he sounds like he is trying to find the grove that was there in the 1975 Brothers and Sisters album release, that same style, he is going for that; maybe the rest of the band were not in that place, and Mike Kach is not Chuck Leavell, different sound. Duane Betts is still being respectful and refined, he won't drive Dickey the way Dangerous Dan did to touch the sky. The only criticism I would have would be the vocals. You want somebody to say it? He sounds a little schnockered on the vocals. There I said it. I could also point out Gregg had a few of them nights himself but we always overlook it out of empathy because he was Duane's brother and losing Duane hit him hard, so if Gregg was effed up, people would just say aw man and let it go. Dickey is not a vocalist, that is another aspect.

That was from one show in Jersey, during a tour. Just one night. Other nights are not like that and he's proven it over and over.

I don't find anything wrong with his playing. He likes to improvise and do new things in the old songs, and as I said it sounds like he was in the 74-75 groove of the song. I remember after Berry died and he had just written the song, he played it on tour and blew everybody away with it. He was phenomenal, and he still is, after all he is Dickey, genuine since '69!



[Edited on 7/7/2019 by gina]


owencarol - 7/7/2019 at 09:48 PM

I am saddened to have seen videos from this tour. Dickie was an integral part of the ABB. His playing, for years, was very good and certainly unique in of itself. Unmistakable in whatever format he chose to participate in. I wish him health and happiness in the future. Please do not come out again and tarnish the memories.


bird72 - 7/8/2019 at 01:17 AM

I was pretty diplomatic after the Beacon show and tried to ride on the "good to say thanks to Dickey" type opinion. Only after this release fanfare hype did I really be honest.

Jackson Maxwell of Guitar World says: "a scintillating version of Betts' signature contribution to the Allman Brothers Band catalog".

Tell me they aren't "motivated" to write that stuff.

The only thing I can logically reason out is Dickey had given rights to others to release this back when he signed for doing the shows. I can't believe he or Duane in retrospect see this as a dynamite item to get out for fans.

Bum note to end on, so I hope for some possible releases of great vintage Dickey shows, Highway Call era and later Great Southern stuff. And an ABB release with Dickey and Jack Pearson.


blackey - 7/8/2019 at 02:30 AM

A release of Jack Pearson with the ABB is supposedly in the works. Jack and Dickey smoked it during the summer of 1997. I saw several of those shows and Otiel was new to the band too and I was bummed about Warren and Allen leaving and we heard the rumor that much of the reason is because Dickey pulled a knife of Allen. But to my delight and surprise Dickey was rejuvenate at the 3 shows I saw and playing as hot as he was the first several years of the Warren/Allen version of the band. Also first time I saw Dickey playing a Strat since the first half of 1970. Dickey had a hot rail pickup in the neck position and his tone was similar to a Gibson. And it was funny because during the summer of 1997 NO Gibson guitars were on stage by either lead player or the bass. That isn't unusual for some bands but it was for the ABB.

Last I listen to it there is a 1997 Raleigh, N. C. show on YouTube which clearly shows just how hot the band was that summer with Jack and Dickey really soring.

Last I read anything from Dickey in the press he said he is likely retired again and he just doesnt think he puts on a good show anymore. Actually the last show of that 2018 tour saw Dickey making few claims and playing with a little of his old pop.

Unless it's the poor sound from cell phones, all the 2018 shows I've seen on YouTube are especially rough for Dickey. So many clams in every solo. No energy and a few notes that are just awful. Singing not good either. I hope whoever paid Dickey for the new release isn't just putting it out in an attempt to get some of his money back. If Tom Dowd were involved he wouldn't let this out out of respect for Dickey. Maybe some of the other songs are better but the version of Ramblin Man has Dickey making too many hickeys in his solos. The singing is a C - and the tempo is too slow. I'm going to buy it out of respect to my favorite guitar player and song writer but may never watch it. It seems to be as rough as B. B. King the last I saw him. B. B. wanted to play a good show but he had to sit and clearly his age just wouldn't let him. And like Dickey, he would loose his place in some solos then get out of sinc with his band. B. B. had too many clams for his reputation. And it hurt to see him play when you remember how good he was and that B. B. just couldn't do it anymore. I'm 72 now and can't do a lot of things I use to and it hurts. David Lee Roth wasn't good enough to be in Van Halen last I saw him. It's sad what age and a little bad living mixed in will do to everything from your golf game, bowling and love life. Is there a blue pill for a flat golf game?


islalala - 7/8/2019 at 12:52 PM

quote:
The only thing I can logically reason out is Dickey had given rights to others to release this back when he signed for doing the shows. I can't believe he or Duane in retrospect see this as a dynamite item to get out for fans.


This and maybe trying to help promote Duane while he launches the ABB are the only plausible explanations I can come up with. Dickey says his playing days are no good anymore and puts out this subpar vid to support it in a "see I told ya so" sort of way? Doesn't make sense.

Just like there were much better versions of the tunes vs. what was released on Peakin at the Beacon, they could've released something from the Peach Fest that would've smoked this.

Completely baffling....


The_Newt - 7/8/2019 at 02:08 PM

quote:
Dickey is taking good care of Duane Betts too. Duane had a real nice crib out in Malibu, California years ago. Duane flies to nice vacation spots several times a year. Duane has three of Dickey's best guitars as his main axes. A 2001 aged Dickey Betts custom shop Gibson Les Paul, 1956 Fender Stratocaster hardtail and a big dot neck 1961 Gibson ES-335.

Now if you want to compare Dickey's 40 million to some other guitar players....Keith Richards 340 million. Eric Clapton 250 million. David Gilmore 200 million.

Gregg was worth 20 million and owned 42 guitars. Devon Allman said Gregg gave him all of them.

That's a crazy amount of money. If I had even near a small percentage of that type of money I would not waste it by living in Malibu or Southern California, or in Palm Beach FL like Butch did. Instead I suppose I would be more like Devon and a lot more conservative with the money, and just live comfortably.

I did not watch the video as I just watched the live stream from the Macon show when Dickey played with Jaimoe and I don't want to ruin the good memory of it or the other times I saw Dickey with the Allmans and his band great southern.

[Edited on 7/8/2019 by The_Newt]


matt05 - 7/8/2019 at 02:25 PM

quote:
quote:
The only thing I can logically reason out is Dickey had given rights to others to release this back when he signed for doing the shows. I can't believe he or Duane in retrospect see this as a dynamite item to get out for fans.


This and maybe trying to help promote Duane while he launches the ABB are the only plausible explanations I can come up with. Dickey says his playing days are no good anymore and puts out this subpar vid to support it in a "see I told ya so" sort of way? Doesn't make sense.

Just like there were much better versions of the tunes vs. what was released on Peakin at the Beacon, they could've released something from the Peach Fest that would've smoked this.

Completely baffling....




to me its more of a "thank you guys but you can see this is the end of the road but if you want to enjoy a performance one last time I gave it my all". to me its a release for his long time fans . that doesn't mean I think the clip sounded great though lol


hotlantatim - 7/8/2019 at 02:39 PM

From a lot of accounts, the one show where Dickey was closest to his pre-2014 self was the Peach Fest gig. Too bad they didn't record & release that one...if they had to do one. And I do think this was the best band Dickey assembled after 2000 (partially because I never heard Mike or Duane play so well).

I'm glad I went to Macon and got to see Dickey & Jaimoe share the stage. Fun night. I have no desire to acquire the tape.


blackey - 7/8/2019 at 03:18 PM

Peeking at the Beacon was to fulfill the ABB's commitment to Epic. After 2nd set in 1995 several in the band decided their deal with Epic wasn't a good one so they refused to do another album which disappointed Warren and Allen. They wanted to do some more albums.

The Beacon was chosen because of it's iconic connection to the band by 2000 and it's my understanding it's a good soundboard recording they provided Epic culled from several shows during the 2000 Beacon run produced by the band and sound man Bud Snyder. Likely they didn't plan on the shows being part of an album much like Wipe the Windows was an afterthought by Capricorn.

I really like Standback on Peeking at the Beacon. Gregg's vocals are strong and Derek and Dickey are blowing real good. The first two tracks are strong too and I like Leave My Blues at Home and Seven turns. Nice slide solo from Derek. The rest of it I don't play. Well I only play any of the CD just a few times a year. It was a disappointment for Epic selling just north of 20,000 copies.


WaitinForRain - 7/9/2019 at 02:03 AM

"Dickey was the backbone of the ABB. If he had vanished from the band early on
the story would have ended right there"

Um, No. LMAO.

The band didn't fold after Duane died, and it would not have folded had DB checked out first.

DA was an innovator, and he did not want to be the only guitar player.
DA chose original musicians to play with.

DB picked a DB clone in DT, although he grew out of that over time...

DB and DT would not have made great music on eat a peach.


JimSheridan - 7/9/2019 at 02:57 AM

Guitar chemistry is fascinating. You meant that DB thought he was getting a DA replacement, right? That was a fair thing to believe.

But back to the topic - it really is interesting to consider bands that have two guitarists both playing meaningful and meaty significant signature roles, and what happens when the line-ups change. Do you get a guy who sounds like the guy who just left? Do you get a guy who sounds like you? Do you get a guy who sounds pretty darned different?

I mean, it is a great question to ask with ANY musical shift or membership change, but when you get a guitar duo sound as astonishing as that of Duane & Dickey, or Keith and Brian Jones (or Mick Taylor imo), or Bobby & Jerry.... I mean I was racking my brains trying to think of guitar pairs where BOTH guys had a sound that was hard to cover. In some 2-guitar bands, I'm not sure I feel a change of membership as strongly, but that probably means that I just do not know those bands that well.

Cleary, AC/DC and Aerosmith thrive on that original line-up classic duo guitar sound and are challenged when the guitar line-up changes, even if I don't know those guitarists that well to know how much. I'm not enough of a fan of bands like Wishbone Ash, Iron Maiden, or Judas Priest to know if those bands really suffered or not from changes in guitarists.

Back to the ABB:

Dan Toler seemed very similar to Dickey in approach, and some would argue that it was too an extreme. He was too close to the sound of the other guy in the same line-up rather than offering a contrast. Obviously, there is a counter-argument in favor of having two similar guys creating great melodies. Maybe "Enlightened Rogues" is 2 Dickeys like "Tattoo You" is 2 Keiths.

Then, there is a general sense that Warren was at least hired in part to be the Daune guy in Dickey's band and then the 1989+ reunion of the ABB that lasted through the mid-90s.

Then, and I still have not gotten to hear much of the Jack Pearson ABB, so I'm not sure if he played that part (the Duane role) in the same way that Warren and later Derek seemed to be expected to be, but presumably there was some of that.

Derek then stepped in to be Dickey's foil, and had his Duane down. Once gain, you had a "Duane guy" opposite Dickey.

Which then makes it fascinating when Dickey was out of the band. I'm not weighing in on any of the personal politics, just rambling about the musical equations thereof. Duane was one defining Allmans sound; Dickey was another. In that absence of both those guys, who does what, and why?

Jimmy Herring is a beast, and he was an inspired choice for sure. Was this the wildest and weirdest post-AFE lineup ever, and the most UNLIKE the AFE line-up ever in terms of expectations of guitar roles / sounds?
It was clearly the combo of 2 guitarists who had logged the least miles with the ABB. It's kind of a shame it didn't last longer; where would this pairing of Starchild global kozmic players have pulled Gregg and Butch?


And then you have what is a different and interesting question. Warren Haynes entered the ABB as the "Duane" / "Foil to Dickey" guy. Derek Trucks also entered the ABB as that same "Duane" / foil to DB" role. When they were now the two guitarists for the ABB, both having been enrolled as Duane guys though both having a melodic sense, where else could they have taken their 2-guitar approach?


WaitinForRain - 7/9/2019 at 03:48 AM

Excellent thoughtful post Jim Sheridan!

". You meant that DB thought he was getting a DA replacement, right? That was a fair thing to believe. "

No I think Dickey chose Dan because he would not be outshined.
They were too close in style and the contrast between their voices was lost.

I never heard Dan as the Duane guy. I think Dan Toler and Scott Sharrard are more alike.
They can do that DB sound thing, but it's still not Dickey, it's not as exciting, and it reeks of Molly Hatchet.

When they aren't trying the Dickey flavor, I think they are better players.

I always wondered why Gregg went for that in his solo band. Tasteful but fairly predictable if not sometimes smokin guitar.

Warren has an incredible musical vocabulary. In that way he reminds me of Garcia.


rainy - 7/9/2019 at 04:23 AM

quote:
I'm just thrilled that Dickey is better and still doing what he loves. I've been following Brothers since 69 Ö.I ain't perfect all the time either....lol


Just catching up ,,,, I havenít watched the video and I donít think I will.... what for ?????
Ive been around a loooooooong time Ive seen many many many many great LIVE ABB DBGS shows and a few clunkers along the way... it happens , sometimes when your young and when your old
ABB has and will always be my favorite band . I donít even wanna get started about my favorite guitarist, song writer, melody maker , best musical compositions , Blue Sky maker , original founding member of the ABB Dickey Betts just automatically puts a smile on my face, in my heart , and makes my true hippie dance come alive I hope I never stop feeling that no matter what the nay sayers say ... I ve been there to the mountain top WOW
Luvíem


crazyjoe - 7/9/2019 at 12:45 PM

Thanks rainy! ..........Peace........joe


thetoweringfool - 7/9/2019 at 02:11 PM

Interesting stuff Jim... one thing is certain: the Jimmy/Derek lineup pulled Gregg in a direction he NEVER wanted to head down hahaha. Quite possibly the last direction he EVER wanted to head. The entire front line of that band was a Zambi vision....Gregg may have thought he died n went to hel, lol. Hence him losing it on the guys in the bus. Certainly not Bobby Bland esque, lol. Makes me laugh. Iím sure Skydog would have dug it...I did too.


porkchopbob - 7/9/2019 at 02:21 PM

quote:
I never heard Dan as the Duane guy. I think Dan Toler and Scott Sharrard are more alike.
They can do that DB sound thing, but it's still not Dickey, it's not as exciting, and it reeks of Molly Hatchet.


I've never thought of Toler and Sharrard as similar guitarists, but I kind of see what you are saying. Both are kind of blandly adaptable, that is, neither is specific enough that they can each play multiple genres. Gregg never wanted the lengthy guitar pyrotechnics of the ABB in his own band, but he wanted a guitarist that could still play a brief scorching solo when called upon. Both Dan and Scott can play "Whipping Post", but neither is going to be revelatory.

Toler was definitely a "southern rock" guitarist of his time, you could tell he was hugely influenced by that music of the early 1970s. Solid guitarist, but never really found his own sound (unless you count his all-whammy Strat during the 2000s which I did not find pleasant).

Sharrard sounds more 1960s blues and soul-influenced. Nothing flashy, never took a solo to the moon, but knew his lane.


redhouse1969 - 7/9/2019 at 03:01 PM

Only a topic about Dickey can get a multiple page thread going...

As for the all of the guitar players that have been in the band ( and the other musicians) they all deserved to be there based on talent. Dan's solo & work on I'm no Angel is fantastic - it makes the song.

Scott was in Gregg's band because he was exactly what Gregg wanted.


porkchopbob - 7/9/2019 at 03:15 PM

quote:
I really like Standback on Peeking at the Beacon. Gregg's vocals are strong and Derek and Dickey are blowing real good. The first two tracks are strong too and I like Leave My Blues at Home and Seven turns.

I thought it was kind of ironic that one of the best cuts off of Peakin' was Dickey's "Seven Turns". Maybe he was just more focused on his own material.

Disagree with "Stand Back" and "Leave My Blues" - I thought those are the two worst cuts on a pretty sloppy album. But to be fair, I don't think either of those songs ever sounded quite right live, even with Warren & Derek.


BIGV - 7/9/2019 at 04:03 PM

quote:
I've never thought of Toler and Sharrard as similar guitarists, but I kind of see what you are saying. Both are kind of blandly adaptable, that is, neither is specific enough that they can each play multiple genres.


Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"

Scott, was to quote another poster, "exactly what Gregg wanted", a slinger who could adequately do obligatory fills albeit un-spectacularly. Having seen Gregg's solo bands dozens of times through the decades, I feel he might have been able to pull off all of those shows with a different guitar player at every single gig....

Dickey was initially "Challenged" by every guitarist that stood next to him and in my humble opinion, some of his best tone and playing ever appears on "Pattern Disruptive"...That is the era (prior to the '89 re-union) where a video release would have benefited his legacy with the most impact. Like quite a few here I am scratching my head in complete wonder as to why anyone would listen/watch to the "Ramblin' Man" video and feel like this was a necessary purchase.....


porkchopbob - 7/9/2019 at 04:19 PM

quote:
Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"



Yeah, I still have trouble telling Dan and Dickey solos apart on Enlightened Rogues.


Lee - 7/9/2019 at 04:43 PM

quote:
Peeking at the Beacon was to fulfill the ABB's commitment to Epic. After 2nd set in 1995 several in the band decided their deal with Epic wasn't a good one so they refused to do another album which disappointed Warren and Allen. They wanted to do some more albums.

The Beacon was chosen because of it's iconic connection to the band by 2000 and it's my understanding it's a good soundboard recording they provided Epic culled from several shows during the 2000 Beacon run produced by the band and sound man Bud Snyder. Likely they didn't plan on the shows being part of an album much like Wipe the Windows was an afterthought by Capricorn.

I really like Standback on Peeking at the Beacon. Gregg's vocals are strong and Derek and Dickey are blowing real good. The first two tracks are strong too and I like Leave My Blues at Home and Seven turns. Nice slide solo from Derek. The rest of it I don't play. Well I only play any of the CD just a few times a year. It was a disappointment for Epic selling just north of 20,000 copies.


What is Peeking at the Beacon?


Lee - 7/9/2019 at 04:54 PM

quote:
Interesting stuff Jim... one thing is certain: the Jimmy/Derek lineup pulled Gregg in a direction he NEVER wanted to head down hahaha. Quite possibly the last direction he EVER wanted to head. The entire front line of that band was a Zambi vision....Gregg may have thought he died n went to hel, lol. Hence him losing it on the guys in the bus. Certainly not Bobby Bland esque, lol. Makes me laugh. Iím sure Skydog would have dug it...I did too.


The Jimmy / Derek lineup was awesome IMO. I loved that 2000 tour. Jimmy was in a tough spot and did great. Like pretty much most who were around here then I was really bummed about Dickey but The ABB were able to move on that summer. In fact, my first Beacon trip was just a few months before that and I didn't think Dickey was bad. Other then his kid taking solos on Dreams I thought the shows were good.

Regarding Dan Toler, when he was in Great Southern he was awesome. Saw him in New York with Dickey and I thought Dan was actually better. Just my opinion. That guy could play.


porkchopbob - 7/9/2019 at 07:27 PM

Relix has a feature with some more footage from the show:

https://relix.com/blogs/detail/preview-the-dickey-betts-band-ramblin-man-li ve-at-the-st-george-theatre/


JimSheridan - 7/10/2019 at 01:03 PM

Re-reading this discussion by sober daylight, I can see that I misread this post:

"DB picked a DB clone in DT, although he grew out of that over time..."

My bad. I thought that this was referring to Derek Trucks (DT) rather than Dan Toler (DT), when obviously it refers to Dan Toler. Sorry!!!!


BrerRabbit - 7/10/2019 at 05:11 PM

quote:
The band didn't fold after Duane died, and it would not have folded had DB checked out first.


Though I personally prefer Gregg's early songwriting, by LAFE it is clear he was not coming up with new stuff. Without Betts' hit machine EAP wouldn't have happened, the ABB would not have broken through with Brothers and Sisters. Duane, not a songwriter and in high demand as a blazing talent on the ascent, would not have spent too much more time in a band on the chitlin circuit, with lesser guitar players skyrocketing all around him in the early 70s. He would almost surely have been compelled to move on to work with leading lights in the industry - possibly into production. Of course impossible to know, but interesting to speculate on. If we were placing betts I'd lay odds that "Southern Rock" never would have happened.


[Edited on 7/11/2019 by BrerRabbit]


rayg - 7/10/2019 at 08:43 PM

Bad song choice for the hard core fans as far as a promo video prior to the release date . Maybe the business people who are responsible for generating sales for this Dickey release feel any ( good, bad or ugly) version of 'Ramblin Man' will help sales to the casual music fan. There are very few versions of Ramblin Man other than the Brothers and Sisters recorded version that I turn to when I'm looking to get my Dickey fix . Whether it was 1979 , 1989, 1999 or 2009 or 2018 I never had an appreciation for Ramblin Man. I'll take Blue Sky, Change My way of living, Elizabeth Reed , Nothing you can Do or any other tune Dickey has played on in year of his long career other than ' Ramblin Man'. I'm sure there is going to some real good playing on the release that all of us hard core fans will appreciate and maybe even listen to more than once.
I was at The Peach Fest show and The Dickey set worked real well for me . I'm sure the previous night in Staten Island worked well for those fans too.


pops42 - 7/11/2019 at 04:39 AM

quote:
quote:
Spot on. The first time I even heard of Dan Toler was on Dickey's 1st "Great Southern" recording and the first time I ever saw him perform live was at the Roxy in L.A. in May of '77 (KMET "Live" FM broadcast) He was the "other guy" with an axe who gave Dickey someone to play off. It was an exciting time, Dickey was back on stage after the disastrous "Win, Lose or Draw" and Dan Toler was part of that magic, nothing more. "Blandly acceptable"



Yeah, I still have trouble telling Dan and Dickey solos apart on Enlightened Rogues.
Yep It was great to see them back though!.


Agerst1574 - 7/11/2019 at 11:45 AM

So many things to say on this topic. I went to the Beacon show and have to say I had a great time. I thought the Devon Allman Band were great, and even enjoyed Marshall Tucker despite Doug Grayís voice. I was thrilled to see Dickey and hear the songs even though I thought the performance was disappointing.

I could not watch the video. Dickeyís voice is shot and out of key and the playing is almost amateurish. Do I begrudge him for it? No, due to all of the great music he gave us in the past. But would I pay money to see him again? No. Just like I stopped going to see guys like Chuck Berry and B.B. King.

Thanks to Fretsman for posting the Dickey video from NYC in 2014. I attended the show which was the first time I saw Dickey solo since the original Great Southern days and loved the show. Dickey was still capable of doing great guitar runs here and I canít wait to listen to the videos in the gym.


blackey - 7/11/2019 at 12:14 PM

I remember a Dickey interview in 1977 taking about putting together his new band. I think it was Circus magazine. Dickey put out the word in 1976 after the ABB splintered over the Gregg/Scooter drug dealer and all the other problems. Dickey said he hired Dan because he was the only one auditioning who could play those twin leads like Duane. Dickey wasn't talking about guitar solos but where the two lead guitars played dual lead on those melody lines. Dickey talked about not liking electric slide but he would have to keep doing it because Toler doesnt play slide at all. That 1976 to 1977 band that recorded the first Great Southern album didnt last though. I think it was Chicago where there was a big fist fight with Dickey playing the next show with a big black eye and one of the drummers, the bass player and the keyboardist replaced. By the next year Dickey had come to see Gregg didnt sell out anybody so Dickey approached Gregg about putting the band together. Then the original four agreed to play at a Great Southern show in Central Park. Chuck and Lamar weren't available being busy with Sea Level.

Next the ABB played at the Capricorn picnic and after the set Chuck went to Phil Walden and said he and Lamar just talked and it felt uninspired like the last months the ABB did in late 1975 and 1976 so he and Lamar want to pass and keep going with Sea Level. Phil then asked Dickey and Gregg to play a set with the Central Park lineup which was the original four with Great Southern's bass and other lead guitar player. Later Gregg, Butch and eventually even Dickey agreed the chemistry wasn't right with that line up. So the plan in 1978 was to put the Brothers and Sisters lineup back together. When that didn't work out Phil Walden who was really wanted a new ABB album as soon as possible got the band down to Miami and Tom Dowd with the original four plus two from Great Southern. According to Butch and Gregg in his book they rushed it and didn't get the right lineup. And Butch, Gregg and even Dickey agreed they shouldn't have been involved with Phil Walden at that point.


When Dickey hired Warren Haynes for the Dickey Betts Band in 1987 he said Warren Haynes was the best he had run across to play twin lead with since he lost Duane Allman.

In 2002 when he hired Dan Toler again Dickey said for years he never considered Danny again because his style is too close to his. But when he ran into Danny recently, it was completely different. Toler was playing a Fender Strat not a Les Paul and using the whammy bar a lot which was a positive change with his own style and voice on his solos now.


rayg - 7/11/2019 at 01:47 PM

Great stuff Blackey. Danny definitely added a new (Dangerous) dimension to his playing with latter day Great Southern . Generally The Brother's always did a great job at selecting musicians to play with . Danny's entrance into our world allowed Dickey to take his own playing to a new level whether it was with early Great Southern or The Brother's . The lack of inspiration from early Great Southern and The Brother's from 79-81 was the quality of the songwriting. Warren brought the whole package when he entered the equation. Slide, Electric, Vocals, Songwriting , Common Sense and Intelligence are all part of the Warren Haynes Package.


cmgst34 - 7/11/2019 at 02:31 PM

quote:
I'll take Blue Sky, Change My way of living, Elizabeth Reed , Nothing you can Do or any other tune Dickey has played on in year of his long career other than ' Ramblin Man'.


Your listing of Dickey songs got me thinking, I have always thought Back Where It All Begins is wonderful, and seems to fly under the radar when thinking about great Dickey tunes.


PaulColetti - 7/11/2019 at 04:13 PM

Pops42..On Enlightened Rogues Dickey is the right stereo side and Dan is left. Dan takes the 1st lead on Pegasus and Blind Love. All the other guitar leads are Dickeyís.
Personally I can tell them apart.


blackey - 7/11/2019 at 08:57 PM

Too bad Chuck Leavell and Lamar Williams opted to stay with Sea Level after the Brothrrs and Sisters line up played at the 1978 Capricorn picnic. Enlighten Rogues would have been a different album. According to Gregg's book Gregg didnt care for David Goldflies on bass.


Jonesy - 7/11/2019 at 09:39 PM

quote:
Too bad Chuck Leavell and Lamar Williams opted to stay with Sea Level after the Brothrrs and Sisters line up played at the 1978 Capricorn picnic. Enlighten Rogues would have been a different album. According to Gregg's book Gregg didnt care for David Goldflies on bass.


Goldflies was very different than Berry Oakley and Lamar, but I must say he was an absolute monster in Great Southern, and also in some of the ABB shows I saw. I don't know what Gregg's opposition was, i can only surmise that Goldflies' style was his concern


porkchopbob - 7/11/2019 at 10:02 PM

quote:
Goldflies was very different than Berry Oakley and Lamar, but I must say he was an absolute monster in Great Southern, and also in some of the ABB shows I saw. I don't know what Gregg's opposition was, i can only surmise that Goldflies' style was his concern


I recall Gregg said something about Goldflies being "paid by the note" or overplaying, something along those lines. I thought Gregg threw a lot of passive aggressive shade in his book, but that's what memoirs are for.

Rook was solid, but the late 1970s was a different time for music, even Phil Lesh played some disco-inspired bass. Goldflies still plays around south Florida, and even recently teamed up with Gregg & Duane's cousin (no I am not joking) - keyboardist and singer, Gary Allman. Though I think Goldflies is since sans Gary.

Here they are in action: https://www.pbs.org/video/allman-goldflies-band-ylw9b6/

Three guesses which one is Mr. G. Allman



blackey - 7/12/2019 at 12:40 AM

On the left? Yes a couple of times in interviews and in the book Gregg said Goldflies "must have thought he was being paid by the note". Meaning to Gregg he over played or played too much.

But Dickey must have liked him. Dickey was a HUGE Berry Oakley fan and tried to get later bass players to think like Oakley. Gregg said Allen Woody got tired of Dickey doing that.


redhouse1969 - 7/12/2019 at 01:19 PM

quote:
On the left? Yes a couple of times in interviews and in the book Gregg said Goldflies "must have thought he was being paid by the note". Meaning to Gregg he over played or played too much.

But Dickey must have liked him. Dickey was a HUGE Berry Oakley fan and tried to get later bass players to think like Oakley. Gregg said Allen Woody got tired of Dickey doing that.


I think that is also the reason he is a big fan of Pedro Arevalo's style


masbama - 7/13/2019 at 03:51 PM

quote:
Pops42..On Enlightened Rogues Dickey is the right stereo side and Dan is left. Dan takes the 1st lead on Pegasus and Blind Love. All the other guitar leads are Dickeyís.
Personally I can tell them apart.

I think the first solo on Canít Take it With You is Dan. I think.


masbama - 7/13/2019 at 03:53 PM

quote:
Too bad Chuck Leavell and Lamar Williams opted to stay with Sea Level after the Brothrrs and Sisters line up played at the 1978 Capricorn picnic. Enlighten Rogues would have been a different album. According to Gregg's book Gregg didnt care for David Goldflies on bass.



I always find that lineup fascinating to listen to. I wonder why they never played Jelly Jelly live?


blackey - 7/13/2019 at 07:40 PM

Jelly Jelly was the only one I never saw them play live. One Pony boy I saw was an I instrumental from that lineup. When they began writing about Brothers and Sisters in the magazines when it became the number one, best selling, album in America, Jelly Jelly was a hybrid of sorts. On that song the band got the music recorded the way they wanted it but Gregg recorded his own words and called it Early Morning Blues by Gregg Allman . I never read exactly why Gregg decided to re-record his vocals with words by Trade Martin and Billy Eckstine and took away his writing credit. A writing credit on an album that sold as many copies as Brothers and Sisters equaled a lot of money. Let me check Gregg's book.

That lineup did Lonetime Gone from Dickey's solo album but Chuck Leavell sang the first verse. I saw them do Whipping Post then straight into Mountain Jam a few times too.


WaitinForRain - 7/15/2019 at 02:48 AM

"Without Betts' hit machine EAP wouldn't have happened, the ABB would not have broken through with Brothers and Sisters. Duane, not a songwriter and in high demand as a blazing talent on the ascent, would not have spent too much more time in a band on the chitlin circuit, with lesser guitar players skyrocketing all around him in the early 70s. He would almost surely have been compelled to move on to work with leading lights in the industry - possibly into production. Of course impossible to know, but interesting to speculate on. If we were placing betts I'd lay odds that "Southern Rock" never would have happened. "


You're saying that without a single song,ramblin man you'd lay odds "rock rock" wouldn't have happened?
I gotta disagree. Lotta music was brewing, all the southern rock gitar players were aware of Duane.

A more interesting question is what the ABB might have done in a post Dickey, still Duane universe. I don't at all see Duane moving to the studio. He may have started playing more with the jazz guys, or imagine Chuck and Duane.

GA had laid back fermenting, by LAFE. Ain't Wastin' Time, and Standback are strong. Melissa was a hit. Duane may have started writing instrumentals.

It may have served the band in the long run to have missed out on private jet tours.

Given Jimmy, Derek,Warren,Jack - there were other players out there.

Dickey was a tremendous talent, would he have had a platform and/or a hit without the ABB?

He made a strong contribution. He's not all all the whole show. He wasn't the same as Fogerty to CCR. He wasn't their whole show.

[Edited on 7/19/2019 by WaitinForRain]


BrerRabbit - 7/18/2019 at 05:13 PM

quote:
Dickey was a tremendous talent, would he have had a platform and/or a hit without the ABB?


Good point, as well as your other points. Short answer to your question from me is no. And shows why Betts cranked so hard early 70s ABB, that was his rig, he couldn't start up something else. Lightning generally doesn't strike twice in the same place so safe bet that without Brothers and Sisters the ABB wouldn't have ever broken through to the mainstream.

Looks like we agree that Duane would have kept on truckin, studio or not. He was a journeyman, could have moved freely where he chose. For a band to keep rolling they gotta crank out product, and not rest on a big record. The ABB was not doing that after 1973 - so that is why Brothers and Sisters was their last big record.

Duane was one of those guitar players who could make any band sound good - but not a songwriter, so he would have worked with currently successful artists who were hiring the best. Doesn't really matter how good a guitar player you are, you cantt keep going, gotta work with singer songwriters.


[Edited on 7/18/2019 by BrerRabbit]


WaitinForRain - 7/19/2019 at 03:33 PM

DB really didn't have hits after GS.
Gregg did. Gregg the songwriter without the loss of creative fire
from losing Duane? He might have managed 'all compositions by...'

Still if you look at DB and GA compositions before the drugs/fame/bull **** got them,
it's incredible.

Still. I think it's important in a real good band to realize that all those voices shine
especially in that context. The swinging rhythm section of the ABB is hard to replicate.
Most people hear the charging guitars upfront and think you get that by playing fast. Add 1 drummer
playing the typical beat and it's...HORRID. the ABB swings because there's a slightly laid back
backdrop that makes the guitars pop. Dynamics and swing, they really had it.


porkchopbob - 7/19/2019 at 03:36 PM

quote:
DB really didn't have hits after GS.


Do you mean after the first round of Great Southern in the 70s or the 2nd round in the 2000s? Because after the first round of Great Southern, Dickey's "Crazy Love", "Seven Turns", and "No One to Run With" all charted. After the second round of Great Southern, he was retired so...

[Edited on 7/19/2019 by porkchopbob]


BrerRabbit - 7/19/2019 at 03:59 PM

quote:
Still if you look at DB and GA compositions before the drugs/fame/bull **** got them,
it's incredible.


Yeah this and what you wrote about private jet tours. You mentioned the flow of the rhythm section too, a unique signature that no other group ever had, strong elements that are often overlooked


The_Newt - 7/21/2019 at 09:19 AM

quote:
DB really didn't have hits after GS.
Gregg did. Gregg the songwriter without the loss of creative fire
from losing Duane? He might have managed 'all compositions by...'

Still if you look at DB and GA compositions before the drugs/fame/bull **** got them,
it's incredible.

Still. I think it's important in a real good band to realize that all those voices shine
especially in that context. The swinging rhythm section of the ABB is hard to replicate.
Most people hear the charging guitars upfront and think you get that by playing fast. Add 1 drummer
playing the typical beat and it's...HORRID. the ABB swings because there's a slightly laid back
backdrop that makes the guitars pop. Dynamics and swing, they really had it.



Very true. Had Duane lived I really hope he would not have overdosed and died from hard drugs as this could have happened.


matt05 - 7/21/2019 at 01:49 PM

quote:
DB really didn't have hits after GS.
Gregg did. Gregg the songwriter without the loss of creative fire
from losing Duane? He might have managed 'all compositions by...'

Still if you look at DB and GA compositions before the drugs/fame/bull **** got them,
it's incredible.

Still. I think it's important in a real good band to realize that all those voices shine
especially in that context. The swinging rhythm section of the ABB is hard to replicate.
Most people hear the charging guitars upfront and think you get that by playing fast. Add 1 drummer
playing the typical beat and it's...HORRID. the ABB swings because there's a slightly laid back
backdrop that makes the guitars pop. Dynamics and swing, they really had it.





can you please explain dickey having not hits after great southern and Gregg did? what timeframe are you referring to?


assuming these chart placements are correct here are the listed charted singles I can find by the band and dickey and Gregg after great southern.

after the initial great southern run hit songs written/co-written by betts
-crazy love #29 pop hit
-can't take it with you #105 pop hit (I know not a hit but it charted and betts wrote it)
-angeline #58 pop hit
-straight from the heart #39 pop hit #11 rock hit
-good clean fun #1 rock hit
-seven turns #12 rock hit
-no one to run with #7 rock hit
-back where it all begins #29 rock hit



looking at Gregg allman here are hit songs he had after great southerns 70 run that he wrote/co-wrote
-anything goes #3 rock hit
-good clean fun #1 rock hit
-end of the line #2 rock hit
-firing line #37 rock hit


-i'm no angel-not written/co-written by Gregg
-slip away-not written/co-written by Gregg
-can't keep running not written/co-written by Gregg. WRITTEN BY MICHAEL BOLTON
-can't get over you-not written/co-written by Gregg
-it ain't over yet-not written/co-written by Gregg




WaitinForRain - 7/21/2019 at 06:01 PM

*can you please explain dickey having not hits after great southern and Gregg did?
*what timeframe are you referring to?

I'm talking about on his own.
You're right I wasn't clear


*assuming these chart placements are correct

The world isn't flat, you're OK bro!

*here are the listed charted singles I can find by the band and dickey and Gregg after great southern.

*after the initial great southern run hit songs written/co-written by betts
*-crazy love #29 pop hit
*-can't take it with you #105 pop hit (I know not a hit but it charted and betts wrote it)
*-angeline #58 pop hit
*-straight from the heart #39 pop hit #11 rock hit
*-good clean fun #1 rock hit
*-seven turns #12 rock hit
*-no one to run with #7 rock hit
*-back where it all begins #29 rock hit

Yes you are right, Betts wrote more songs.
You provided an objective facts based response.

My thought -not stated clearly:
Gregg is on a lot more a 1-2-3
I don't see anything on the charts (if that is the measure) by solo DB
(Or DB and GS)

Good Clean Fun is not a hit
without the golden voice, and GA and DB are CO writers - surprised you didn't mention this

*looking at Gregg allman here are hit songs he had after great southerns 70 run that he wrote/co-wrote
*-anything goes #3 rock hit
*-good clean fun #1 rock hit
*-end of the line #2 rock hit
*-firing line #37 rock hit

I was indeed thinking of GA the presence more than GA the writer,
Here are some chart #s


*-i'm no angel-not written/co-written by Gregg
But it hit #1

*-slip away-not written/co-written by Gregg
#17

*-can't keep running not written/co-written by Gregg. WRITTEN BY MICHAEL BOLTON
#3
*-can't get over you-not written/co-written by Gregg
#3
*-it ain't over yet-not written/co-written by Gregg
#26

It's more than possible the creative for of DB was fed by the ABB gestalt
more than GS.... Better musicians/better connections but I have no way to know.

As a PS there are so many different billboard "charts"
I didn't list which ones

Peace out
An' don't forget to put the gravy on the meat.

(Typo corrected)

[Edited on 7/21/2019 by WaitinForRain]


matt05 - 7/22/2019 at 03:12 AM

quote:
*can you please explain dickey having not hits after great southern and Gregg did?
*what timeframe are you referring to?

I'm talking about on his own.
You're right I wasn't clear


*assuming these chart placements are correct

The world isn't flat, you're OK bro!

*here are the listed charted singles I can find by the band and dickey and Gregg after great southern.

*after the initial great southern run hit songs written/co-written by betts
*-crazy love #29 pop hit
*-can't take it with you #105 pop hit (I know not a hit but it charted and betts wrote it)
*-angeline #58 pop hit
*-straight from the heart #39 pop hit #11 rock hit
*-good clean fun #1 rock hit
*-seven turns #12 rock hit
*-no one to run with #7 rock hit
*-back where it all begins #29 rock hit

Yes you are right, Betts wrote more songs.
You provided an objective facts based response.

My thought -not stated clearly:
Gregg is on a lot more a 1-2-3
I don't see anything on the charts (if that is the measure) by solo DB
(Or DB and GS)

Good Clean Fun is not a hit
without the golden voice, and GA and DB are CO writers - surprised you didn't mention this

*looking at Gregg allman here are hit songs he had after great southerns 70 run that he wrote/co-wrote
*-anything goes #3 rock hit
*-good clean fun #1 rock hit
*-end of the line #2 rock hit
*-firing line #37 rock hit

I was indeed thinking of GA the presence more than GA the writer,
Here are some chart #s


*-i'm no angel-not written/co-written by Gregg
But it hit #1

*-slip away-not written/co-written by Gregg
#17

*-can't keep running not written/co-written by Gregg. WRITTEN BY MICHAEL BOLTON
#3
*-can't get over you-not written/co-written by Gregg
#3
*-it ain't over yet-not written/co-written by Gregg
#26

It's more than possible the creative for of DB was fed by the ABB gestalt
more than GS.... Better musicians/better connections but I have no way to know.

As a PS there are so many different billboard "charts"
I didn't list which ones

Peace out
An' don't forget to put the gravy on the meat.

(Typo corrected)

[Edited on 7/21/2019 by WaitinForRain]



i get gregg has solo hits in the 80's, because most of them were written by professional hit writers. i would hope pros were hired and he got hits. betts still wrote all of his solo material except the cover every now and again like "you can have her" and "atlantas burning down". its a lot easier though imo for gregg allman from the allman brothers to draw notice as a solo artist. his name already makes him a higher profile artist than betts


rayg - 7/26/2019 at 03:23 PM

New Dickey live release is a real good listen. Ignore Dickey's vocals and just enjoy the music . I will return to it often over the next few weeks


thebowl - 7/26/2019 at 03:38 PM

Dicky Betts owes me nothing, but I could not finish this. I hope he was well paid, 'cause it surely adds nothing to his rich musical legacy.


WaitinForRain - 7/27/2019 at 12:44 AM

"New Dickey live release is a real good listen."

It's shyte, mate.

But look on the bright side.
I thought Steve Stills was the only one who could sing off key all night, well past his prime,
and sell tickets for it. At least he still kills it on guitar.

GA and DBs final releases brought me to tears.
For opposite reasons :-p


Jerry - 7/27/2019 at 10:14 PM

quote:
Dicky Betts owes me nothing, but I could not finish this. I hope he was well paid, 'cause it surely adds nothing to his rich musical legacy.


if you want to see Dickey in his prime, watch this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoVFbIteEUs
If you don't want to watch Wet Willie and Marshall Tucker play a few, go to 16:55 and watch an impromptu
back porch duet at Idlewild South.
There is a jam session with Elvin Bishop, Bonnie Bramlett, and Dickey doing "Just Can't Help Myself" at the end.

If you have the YouTube download app you can save it and make a dvd copy.

OH, and there are appearances by Sea Level and Stillwater.


This thread come from : Hittin' The Web with the Allman Brothers Band
http://allmanbrothersband.com/

Url of this website:
http://allmanbrothersband.com//modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&fid=126&tid=148355